Virus-X Debate Round 2

His response

[Editor's note: I sent him the link to my rebuttal as follows:]


[Editor's note: his response was ... interesting]

You won't believe this ...

November 28, 2003

I'll be seeing your response, when you send one.

[Editor's note: well, I've got to hand it to him. I was completely floored by that response. It was certainly a novel approach: he simply refuses to acknowledge the existence of my rebuttal!]

I'll be seeing your response, when you send one.

I already told you, I put it up at

Don't pretend you don't know how to click on a link, asshole. You sent me a fucking Word document and you think it's too inconvenient for you to click on a link?

Or is this your way of conceding the debate? If you refuse to click on that link, that is how I will be forced to interpret it.

He's still running away!

[Editor's note: You know, for someone who said that I'm a huge liar and that he had a complete rebuttal to my entire website "90% done" about 1½ years ago, he sure seems to have trouble coming up with arguments]

For 1, I don't take orders from you.

You seem to have no problem giving them, when you're looking for excuses to duck the argument.

For 2, I've already told you that I'm not wading through megabytes of garbage, hence direct debating through e-mail.

Bullshit, and bullshit. Not only is my reply a single page which is nowhere NEAR "megabytes" in size (something you could see for yourself in less than 10 seconds if you clicked on the link), but YOU stopped using straight E-mail when you switched to a Word document.

For 3, watch your yapper.

Why should I?

I'm trying to speak respectfully to you, but, quite frankly, I'm not bound to do so, when it's never returned.

It is not "respect" to lie to someone's face and invent bullshit reasons for evading his rebuttal.

[Editor's note: I love it when somebody insults me constantly behind my back for months and then suddenly becomes Miss Manners if I insult him back]

If you want to interpret that as concession, go right ahead, but anyone that can read will see that all you had to do was continue asking me questions, and I'd answer them as time permitted.

This is not a Q&A period, asshole. You are not a teacher, and I am not a student. This is an argument, and YOU switched from E-mail to documents which must be read using a third-party piece of software. Ranting at me for doing the same is nothing more than another pathetic delaying action on your part, and everyone knows it.

If you were so hot to 'debate' me, you could've continued.

I did.

As it is, you're the one looking at concession, because you never answered anything I addressed; you only sent me some 'be seeing you' crap, and a link to your hate mail page.

I sent you a link to an online copy of my rebuttal, which you could see for yourself if you clicked on the link. It is a single page, not my entire website. You are just desperately searching for an excuse to duck out of this debate.

Like I said, if you're so hot to debate me, you'd continue.

I did.

Just as you claim I have time to continue reading your site, when in fact I don't, you certainly have the time to read e-mail; after all, you had enough time to spam me with more than 8 useless letters,

[Editor's note: interesting, eh? He's counted up all of the E-mails I sent him throughout this entire exchange and decided that they were all "spam", even though he's been sending one E-mail back for each of mine]

More of your ridiculous "you're spamming me by answering my E-mails" bullshit. And by the way, since I know you've been watching the thread on my webboard that relates to you, it's pretty damned funny of you to claim that you can't find the time to click on a link to see the rebuttal, never mind your pathetic dodge of pretending it's a link to a general Hate Mail page when anyone can look at the link and see that it's obviously dedicated to this debate (hint: the "Virus-X" part of it should make that quite clear).

and post them, decrying that I think you're a bigot. With that amount of time to waste, you should have enough time set aside for an e-mail debate.

You switched to formatted documents including pictures. So did I. This is no excuse, Junior.

If you didn't, then you should've said so, a long time ago.

I'll be expecting your next e-mail, unless you're dropping out of the debate, and, really, I couldn't care less.

Yet again, you look desperately for excuses not to acknowledge my arguments. Yet again, I will defuse your pathetic evasions and delaying tactics by simply copying and pasting. I've saved the rebuttal as an attachment to this E-mail. You'd better find another excuse, Junior.

My life has too many other good things and people in it to crow about Star Trek v. Star Wars 'concessions'.

Yeah, I saw you crying about your personal life on your LiveJournal. Funny thing about your busy personal life; you've had plenty of time to spew on MSN for a very long time about Star Wars and Star Trek, even to the point of ranting that you would physically assault numerous people (myself included) if you could. It's a bit late to pretend you don't care now, isn't it?

[Editor's note: by now, as you can imagine, the people on the forums were starting to have a lot of fun at Junior's expense. Wayne Poe discovered his LiveJournal and we were having a good laugh over it. In case you're curious, LiveJournal is a sort of blogging service]

Still ranting

November 29, 2003


A pretty good self-description, and probably a genetic picture, as well. Like I said, when you figure it out, give me another e-mail.  Until then, all spam goes to the junk mail bin, and remains unseen.  Either continue, or get out of the way.

So if I use the word "asshole", then you conclude that I'm incapable of rational discussion, but if you rant that you'll physically attack me if the opportunity presents itself, that's perfectly reasonable?

You really can't see how obvious your evasion is, can you? Pathetic. I sent you the PDF file of my rebuttal, as well as the link to the online version (and I just noticed that you've been persistently cc'ing others on this; I might as well do the same).

Grow up and either admit defeat or argue the point, coward. And for the umpteenth time, replying to your E-mails is not "spam". I have made this point several times now and you are ignoring it, just like you ignore everything else you can't deal with.

If you want to gain the inglorious honour of being the most cowardly twat on my Hate Mail page, go right on ahead and continue on your current path. If you don't, then answer the points I made.

PS. I'm attaching the PDF file AGAIN, just for you.

A Long Wait ... and then ...

December 7, 2003

[Editor's note: he did not respond for quite a while, and I basically wrote him off under the assumption that he was gone. One of my users (named Sharp-Kun) thought he'd try to get him to respond so he went to Junior's LiveJournal and posted "We're Waiting" on it. His response was vehement, to say the least. You can see it here, and it includes some bizarre accusations that every action by every member of my board anywhere on the Internet is actually me in disguise, but the most salient point was him saying "Really, I'm not far from hopping a train and going up there to kick his ass, his wife's and his kids'." Yes, that's right; he actually talked about beating up not only me, but my wife and kids. Now, I have had blowhards bluster about attacking me before; it's not a big deal. But you do not talk about beating up someone's wife and kids over a fucking Star Trek argument! Even more amazingly, he had the gall to E-mail me after saying this, so he could angrily demand that I leave him alone (still working on the assumption that Sharp-Kun was me in disguise, and Wayne Poe is me in disguise, and everybody on my side is actually me in disguise)]

Again, I am forced to tell you that I will not respond to anything, until I am good and ready, and when I have time to completely devote to this really unimportant topic of debate.  Even you said it was a useless hobby.

It shouldn't take more than 10 seconds to type "I concede", Junior.

However, stay out of LiveJournal. Do not go to my LiveJournal, ever again and stop stalking me.

I didn't go to your LiveJournal, and if you continue to publicly accuse me of stalking you, you will be guilty of slander, which is a criminal offense. Do you understand this, Junior? I have no patience for assholes like you who casually slander people in public.

When you did that, you pissed off a lot of people, because they're linked to my own journal through theirs, and, because we're all friends, we discuss anything and everything.

Fuck you, asshole. When you threatened violence against my wife and kids, you crossed the line. Until such time as you admit you are lying about me "stalking" you and apologize for threatening my wife and kids, you are beneath pond scum and I will treat you accordingly. Further measures may even be warranted, since you don't seem to realize that it is a serious act to threaten people with violence.

I really couldn't care what you could see in mine, because the vast majority of mine is encoded 'friends only', but a lot of theirs aren't, and you could go right over to theirs. While I'm certain you didn't, and had neither intention nor interest in doing so, you're making a lot of people needlessly angry and feeling violated by someone they consider an enemy.

This only increases the magnitude of your slander, asshole. Or did it not occur to you that not every member of my forum is me, dumb-ass?

You're not Goth, so nobody is going to be favorably disposed toward you, in there.

Your continuing attempt to threaten me has crossed the line with that last post you made in your LiveJournal and which you accidentally made publicly viewable for a moment before trying to take it private. You are now engaged in public slander and threatening, and I have had enough of your shit.

Leave it alone, and just don't go back. If you can't wait, then go talk to somebody else, but I will not be rushed by you, or anyone else that I don't have any investment in. I'm trying to be polite, but don't push me any further with your stalking. Stay out of LiveJournal, please.

You threatened my wife and kids and falsely accused me of actions which I did not commit, and you have the unmitigated gall to say "don't push me"? Fuck you, asshole. I am beyond the point of "pushing".

Showing His Inner Asshole

No, I didn't threaten violence against your wife and kids, I said I'd beat your ass, liar.

That LiveJournal entry you made says otherwise, asshole. Or perhaps you don't recall typing "Yes, now he's following me into LiveJournal to try harassing me. Really, I'm not far from hopping a train and going up there to kick his ass, his wife's and his kids'. I've told him that if he didn't stop annoying me, I just might do that, and his best response was that he'd run and call the police", right?

And how long did it take you to learn how to spell "Junior"? As for attempting to sue me for posting in my LiveJournal and say it's slander, have at it. Please do. And, maybe you should make at least an attempt to learn what 'slander' really means, legally, before you attempt to try looking more intelligent than you actually are.

Congratulations on learning how to nitpick. The fact remains that you have accused me of actions which I did not commit, asshole.

Additionally, you should learn that when you badger people with countless spams and insults, you're liable to get insulted back.

You mean sending 1 E-mail in response to each of your E-mails to me? As I said, I'm fed up with your slander (oooooh, perhaps it makes a huge difference to call it "libel" instead), and this has passed well beyond mere insults. You should not have brought my wife and kids into this.

He apologizes

[Editor's note: at this point, I was seriously pissed off. The little twat had gone beyond personal insults to talk about beating up my kids and he still had the gall to be screaming insults at me? I was starting to think of actions I could take against him, but before I did anything he abruptly apologized. I get the impression that his friends told him to back off]

Irregardless of getting your supporters to e-mail me, I've already had people on this end tell me that I've become far too angry in our debate, reacting to previous mail that you had tapered down on, in recent weeks.

Reacting to nothing in this case. Despite your claims of harassment, I did not pester you (I only sent you E-mail when you sent me E-mail, and I stopped when you stopped), nor did I post on your LiveJournal (as you should already know since LiveJournal tracks IP addresses), nor did I particularly care what you were doing until you mentioned my wife and kids. That went way over the line, and every observer knew it.

Cutting to the crux of the issue, I'm listening to the people on this end, as well as Bonehead, and offering you a formal apology, which you can do whatever you wish with.  I do realize that I got far too angry with your own remarks, and allowed personal anger to carry me away, far too quickly and easily, so, once again, from one professional to another, I do offer my sincere apology, and promise never to get so irate in the future.  If you wish to disallow further contact, that's fine.  If you wish to contine the debate at this point, that is fine with me, as well.

Frankly, I don't care either way since I have been singularly unimpressed with your conduct throughout this debate, but I accept your apology.

I do not see the offering of a formal apology as a capitulation of any sort, for any reason, just as something that a mature man should do when he realizes that he's wrong.

If you admit you were wrong, that's good enough for me.

[Editor's note: it is not immediately obvious what he means by saying that it's not a capitulation to admit he's wrong, but I suspect he just means he's not conceding the Star Trek debate, not that it matters whether he concedes. I don't see how any scientifically knowledgeable or even vaguely rational person would agree with his argument anyway]

The End?

It appears that this little soap opera has ended. Whether he sends another message is of no consequence to me; either way, he strikes me as too emotionally unstable to be involving himself in debates over Star Wars and Star Trek. It's no big deal to say "ha ha, you're an idiot" when you're arguing over this or any other subject which does not actually affect peoples' lives, but when someone becomes so filled with rage that he talks about taking out his frustrations by beating up a 5-year old kid, he should not be debating people on any subject (if he becomes so furious over a Star Trek argument, imagine how he would react to an argument over religion!). In fact, I would suggest that he should think about seeking professional help for his obvious anger management problem.

In the meantime, I am considering this matter closed. Of course, he or anyone else is always free to try and prove that you can have "Wilson clouds" which move more than ten times faster than a re-entering spacecraft without visibly heating the air, or that photon torpedoes are 30 feet wide :)

In the meantime, comments on this debate can be found here.

Up one level