Amway = Wrong Way

Unless you have access to some sort of stealth or cloaking technology (in which case I want blueprints), you’ve undoubtedly been accosted by an Amway distributor at some point in your life. It doesn’t have to be Amway; it could be any one of those other multi-level marketing (MLM) schemes too, such as Primerica, or perhaps it was Quixtar (Amway’s online variant). Or perhaps you received some scam via E-mail, promising untold wealth without any work.

If you’re like most people, you simply shook your head, dismissed it as a scam, and moved on. But a surprisingly large number of people get taken in by it, and the last time someone tried to sell me on the idea, I told him I would take a good look at the business model to see if it made any sense. I did, and it doesn’t.

How does Amway work?

The Amway “hook” is simple enough. You become a “distributor” for a low, low entry fee. This makes you a retail franchise. You sell Amway products for a profit, or you buy them for yourself. But if you want to make real money, you sign up other “distributors”. They’ll be your “downline”, and when they sell anything, you get paid a commission (they call it a “bonus”). Note that you can get commission on sales of both products and so-called “sales tools”, ie- the motivational books, videos, and audio tapes that constantly stream out of Amway and many of its top distributors.

Small problem: you don’t want to poison your relationships with friends and family members by trying to sell them products at a profit. “But that’s no problem at all”, say the distributors (aka IBOs, or “Independent Business Operators”), because you don’t have to sell them anything. Just buy $200 worth of household supplies for yourself every month, and you’ll have enough sales volumes to qualify for bonuses. Then, get everybody you know to do the same thing, and everybody wins! You’ll get huge bonuses from your growing downline, and they all win too, because they get to buy things at wholesale prices! In reality, you’re doing them a favour by signing them up. Right?

Wrong. For one thing, anything which sounds too good to be true usually is. For another, Amway products are not sold at true wholesale prices. In fact, when I got the chance to inspect an Amway catalogue, I made note of several key prices and later compared them to those found at discount retailers. What did I find? You don’t save money by buying Amway. In fact, once you add shipping and service charges to your order, you’ll find that you usually lose money by buying Amway (gee- Amway is out to make a profit at your expense? What a shock!). In fact, for big-ticket items, the prices can be grossly out of line: I saw electronic items such as stereo systems in the Amway catalogue for hundreds of dollars more than they were at local discount stores. Worse yet, I would have had to place an order and wait for it to arrive with Amway, whereas I could have simply gone to a local electronics store, seen the product up close, listened to it, and then bought it on the spot, all for less money.

But Amway cuts out the middleman, right?

Amway defenders would claim that they cut out the middleman, because Amway is “direct sales”. But this is simply not true. In reality, Amway adds middlemen. Let us compare Amway to Wal-Mart:

Amway

Wal-Mart
Buys direct from manufacturer

Buys direct from manufacturer
Adds markup for operating overhead such as exployee salaries, building maintenance costs, etc.

Adds markup for operating overhead such as employee salaries, building maintenance costs, etc.
Adds distributor’s commission

Sells to you
Adds distributor’s “upline” commission

Sells to you

Do you still think that Amway cuts out the middleman? When you consider that Wal-Mart has many times Amway’s annual sales, you will see that the situation is even worse than it looks, because Wal-Mart has enough muscle to squeeze its suppliers for much lower prices than Amway could ever hope to negotiate. Amway makes some grossly exaggerated claims about the markups in traditional retail, but if you honestly believe that Wal-Mart has to go through a manufacturer’s representative, a jobber, and a wholesaler in order to get to their suppliers, you need to give your head a shake.

Of course, Amway also makes some of its own products (mostly things like household cleaners and bathroom products), which it can sell “directly” (if you disregard the multiple layers of commissions paid into the multi-level marketing system). But the only way to go through $200 a month of those kinds of products is to pay enormously inflated prices for them … the way you would through Amway. When people try to sell you on the plan, they don’t show those crappy little bathroom products. They show you brand-name electronics, and cars, and all the glamorous items in the catalogue … all of which would cost less if you bought them elsewhere.

Want Proof?

In the end, the proof is in the pudding. Quixtar reported year 2000 sales of $518 million, out of which they paid $143 million in commissions. You don’t have to be a mathematics genius to see what this means: when you buy from Amway, 28% of the price is pure commission! Worse yet, this is strictly the distributor’s markup, and it doesn’t yet include Amway’s own markup! “No middleman” indeed …

Compare Amway catalogue prices (including shipping and service fees) to the price tags down at Wal-Mart or Costco, and you’ll see that all the marketing in the world can’t change reality. Amway is not cheaper than a “traditional retailer” such as Wal-Mart (or even Sears, in most cases). You will not save money by buying home items from Amway, and neither will any of your friends and family. You will also not make money by selling these products, since people can be stupid, but not that stupid. Even if you can sucker somebody into buying your overpriced products, all it takes is for that person to wander through Wal-Mart or Costco once, and you’ll never see him again.

So why do people join Amway?

Why do people buy lottery tickets? When dreams crash head-on into reality, a lot of people let the dreams win. You know the sales pitch: “it costs you nothing, and the potential is limitless!” However, both claims are fraudulent:

  1. “It costs you nothing”- Wrong. In fact, an Amway “business” has just as much overhead as, say, an insurance agent. You need to have sales materials. You need to burn gasoline to go prospecting. You need to pay extra car maintenance for all that added travel. You may need to pay long-distance phone bills. You’ll start burning a lot of cell-phone hours, just like any insurance agent. And you’ll need to consume vast amounts of time, arguably the most precious resource of all.
  2. “The potential is limitless”- Wrong, unless you’re willing to screw a lot of people for a lot of money. You see, despite Amway’s protestations that it’s not a pyramid scheme, it is only through the pyramid commissions structure that anyone can ever hope to reach their “limitless” earning potential. On a typical sale, there is a pyramid of distributors (diamond, emerald, platinum) who will take commissions, and your objective is to be at the top of that pyramid. Why? Because everybody at the bottom of the pyramid is losing money, and that lost money is being funneled to the top.

Amway distributors will sell you on the idea of compounding. You buy $200 a month of Amway products for yourself, upon which you get a few dollars back. But if you can sign up 10 people, and they sign up 10 people apiece (and so on, and so on), eventually you’ll have 7,000 people, which will qualify you for the “diamond” distributor category. And if each of those people buys $200 a month of Amway products, you will generate nearly $17 million in yearly sales! Now you can sit back, relax, and just rake in the profits! Easy, right?

Wrong. The model usually collapses long before that, because quite frankly, most people aren’t gullible enough to go for it. They can talk about compounding all they like, but according to the FTC, some 75% of Amway distributors drop out, and according to Amway’s own figures, nearly 60% of those left are “inactive”. Is it truly realistic to imagine that you can build up a stable network of 7,000 active distributors?

But you can do it in your spare time, right? So what’s the harm?

Hmmm, let’s think about that, shall we? Let’s say that 1 in 4 prospecting attempts is successful (a very optimistic figure). Now let’s factor in the FTC’s estimate that 75% of Amway/Quixtar distributors drop out within a year, as well as Amway’s own figure that nearly 60% of distributors are “inactive”. And finally, let’s remember that it takes at least 2-3 hours to sit down and try to sell a prospect on the idea (based on the time someone tried to prospect me).

Let’s do the math. Most of an evening (say, 2-3 hours) is required for a single prospecting session. 4 sessions to get 1 recruit. 1 of 4 recruits stays in for the long haul. 2 of 5 survivors is active. So what does it all mean? Crunch the numbers: 4 x 4 x 2.5 = 40 evenings per active, long-term distributor. But you want 10 of them, so now you’re talking about four hundred evenings. Are you starting to get the picture? That’s four evenings a week, every single week for two years! And that’s not even including all of the silly pep talk rallies and inspirational meetings that you’re supposed to attend!

So after you’ve done all this, what do you have? A measly 10 people under you, each of whom has to do the same thing, and so on down three levels if you plan on making serious money. And since you’ve been doing all of this in addition to your day job (one of the great “benefits” of the Amway business model) you haven’t seen your family in two years. Feeling good yet?

But if you can do it, the payoff is huge, right?

Let’s suppose you’re a stubborn sunuvabitch, and you’re confident that you can do it. You’re willing to sacrifice most of your family life for two years or more, in order to collect 10 distributors who will be active, and who will stay on for the long haul. So are you sitting pretty?

In a word, no. The truly amazing thing about the Amway business model is the enormous sales volume required in order to make any money. A 1985 issue of Forbes magazine gave the example of Robert Crisp of Tulsa, Oklahoma. This man’s network of distributors generated $120 million (yes, one hundred and twenty million dollars) in sales for Amway, from which he earned $200,000. Just think about those numbers, people! His profit is less than 0.2% of the sales volume going through his “business!” If you had an independent business and you were making less than 0.2% profit on sales volume, would you be happy?

Let’s put it this way: Hollywood grosses roughly $5 billion annually. If Hollywood executives earned profits the way Amway’s “Independent Business Operators” did, the entire industry would have profits of less than $10 million per year! This wouldn’t be enough to produce the opening credits on a James Cameron movie, so if Hollywood’s business model were as good as the business plan of a typical Amway distributor, it would have gone out of business long ago.

Worse yet, these feeble figures are from a top producer, whose bonuses are nearly ten times as high as the bonuses a new distributor would get. Small wonder then, that the vast majority of Amway/Quixtar distributors lose money.

But what about those testimonials from happy distributors?

What about them? Oh, I’m sure they’re very compelling. After all, every get-rich-quick scheme in the world has pretty much the same stories: “I used to work nine hours a day, just barely getting ahead. But now, with , I own a 6,000 square foot home, I quit my job, I drive a Ferrari, and I only work two or three hours a week!”

Testimonials are an incredibly stupid form of “proof”, for the obvious reason that they only pick the good ones (“diamond distributors” or higher). If they were forced to give a random sample of their distributors’ experiences, you would discover that out of more than 2 million active distributors, there are less than a thousand people who are so successful (that’s roughly 0.05%). If you had to hear more than a thousand testimonials in order to get one that was really inspirational, would you be inspired? Suppose someone came to you and tried to sell you an investment scheme in which you have a lower than 10% chance of breaking even, never mind making big money. Would you buy in? I doubt it!

So why do so many Amway distributors fail? Is it that they aren’t trying hard enough? Is it that they don’t have enough friends? Is it that they haven’t been coached well enough? No. There’s a very good reason why most Amways distributors must lose money, and it stems from the design of the Amway business model itself.

So why doesn’t it work?

Amway’s defenders will try to confuse you with superfluous details and perhaps even business jargon, but let’s look at this scientifically, shall we? Suppose you have a completely sealed black box except for an inlet and outlet. You put 10 units of mass/energy in, and you get only 5 units of mass/energy out. Logically, there must be 5 units of mass/energy still sitting in there, right?

Well, we can do the same thing with the MLM distributor group (not Amway itself, since we’re only concerned with the profitability of the distributors). We have a black box (the MLM group, including all of its members), we have an influx of mass (new members joining) and energy (sales income), and an outflow of mass (disillusioned members quitting) and energy (expenses, payments to Amway for products). If income exceeds expenses, then you have a profit. If expenses exceed income, then you have a loss. So far, so good.

So how much mass/energy is entering, and how much is leaving? Is the box getting more full, or more empty? Doth thy cup runneth over, or doth it run dry? Let us examine the example of Quixtar in 2000. Remember that their reported revenue was $518 million and their reported commissions were $143 million. Also remember that it has been estimated that roughly 80% of Amway/Quixtar sales are “self sales”, where the distributor buys his own merchandise, so only 20% of total sales come from an outside source and can be considered true income for the group.

Money In Money Out
Sales Income from Customers
(~20% of total sales)

$104 million

Payments to Quixtar
(100% of total sales)

$518 million
Commissions from Quixtar

$143 million

Net loss: roughly $271 million

See the problem? They sell you a business model in which you can sell your products to yourself and still make money. They assure you that it works because you pocket your own commissions. Millions of people who apparently flunked high school math seem to believe them. Is this not insane?

Perhaps the best analogy for the Amway distributor group is not a black box after all. Perhaps the best analogy is a black hole.

OK, so how did the top distributors make it?

In most cases, they were the first ones in. Pyramid schemes work if you can recruit a vast army of suckers to line your pocketbook. When the idea is new, it’s much easier to recruit suckers because they’ve never heard of it before, and their ignorance makes them easy marks. But in any market where Amway has been operating for a while, you won’t find such easy pickings. That’s why Amway success stories are so rare; you need to “open up a new market” in order to be successful.

The remainder fall into the category of the “super-salesman” personality type (you know, the guys who could sell refridgerators to Eskimos). People like that might be able to make the Amway model work, but consider the aforementioned example of Robert Crisp and his $120 million sales volume from which he made only $200k. With the kind of salesmanship and hard work you’d need in order to build up that kind of business with Amway, you could probably make far more money selling cars or even insurance (don’t laugh; there are life insurance agents out there making over $1 million per year; a truly great salesman can make a lot of money in our society, without having to line the pockets of Amway).

Pushing the Product

Their sales pitch is a textbook model for scam artists everywhere. Do they hard-sell you on their products? Do they spend two hours trying to convince you to buy some new power tools, or facial cleansers? No! Amway is not out to sell goods; they’re out to bring more members into their sucking black hole of distributorships, because the more suckers they have selling product to themselves in the hope of somehow making money on their own commissions, the more money the people at the top make. And even within the distributorship black hole, there is a pyramidal hierarchy, where some distributors make money at the expense of others (in other words, the people at the bottom of the distributorship group are really losing money). That’s why they hard-sell the business, not the products. That is a classic hallmark of an illegal pyramid scheme, and Amway escapes prosecution only because they don’t officially sanction this behaviour (even though most of their distributors do it).

In short, you have a distributorship which sends 4 times more money to its parent corporation than it receives in “outside sales”, and then heartily congratulates itself on getting a third of that back in commissions. Does this sound like a healthy business? Where’s the difference coming from? You guessed it: the distributors’ day jobs. This system doesn’t augment your regular income; it drains it.

The Amway distributor system does not generate wealth for its members; it is a net-loss proposition in which the entire group is hemorrhaging red ink like there’s no tomorrow. There’s only two winners in the system: the people who run the parent corporation, and the people who sit at the top of the pyramid (even though the whole pyramid is losing money overall, they are taking such a large share of the commissions that they make money at the expense of the rest). In effect, 90% of the people in the pyramid must lose money so that the remaining 10% can divide the profits amongst themselves (with the lion’s share going to the people at the very top).

Amway’s defenders argue that the trump card is the recruitment process; you make money not by selling product, but by pimping your friends and family. When they join, new money enters the system, and you can take a piece of it. But that is only true if the new people lose money! Imagine a poker game in which a new guy joins. In theory, there’s more money for you to win now, but only if he loses. Do you still want to go after your friends and family? How ruthless are you?

Now do you see why 90% of people in Amway lose money? Since the entire distributorship is losing money, most of them must lose a lot of money if the top earners are going to make any! And even after all of that, the top earners derive the lion’s share of their profits from the sales of seminars, books, and other “sales training aids”, because the really big winners are the people who run the parent corporation and laugh at the worker ants running around on their behalf. Small wonder that the handful of successful distributors are so enthusiastic for you to join; they need new donors. As P.T. Barnum once said, “there’s a sucker born every minute”.

More Info Elsewhere

For more on MLM, see the MLM FAQ. For an extremely thorough, in-depth discussion of Amway, see Amway: The Continuing Story. Also note that like Scientology, Amway has a history of legally harassing those who would speak out against it, which is another sure sign of a scam.

And finally, you may want to visit Amway’s home page. Update: They’ve improved it over the years, and added an on-line store to make it look more like a normal retailer and less like a MLM scam headquarters. But look at the prices: as of Oct 7, 2010, a case of 24 (16 fl oz) bottles of their “Nutrilite” Lemon-Lime sports drink costs $38.88. Meanwhile, the New York area online grocer FreshDirect sells a case of 24 (20 fl oz) bottles of Lemon-Lime Gatorade for $21.79. That’s 25% more sports drink, for 44% less money!

Amway’s website is chock full of ridiculously priced items, like a $384.50 wok or a $1,072.95 set of pots and pans (both from their in-house “iCook” brand, which is supposed to save you money). Some of their small-ticket products are closer to normal retail prices, like their $8.99 pack of 8 Fuji AA alkaline batteries (as opposed to FreshDirect’s $3.99 pack of 4 Duracell AA batteries, which is still slightly cheaper per battery), but what kind of accomplishment is that? Should we be pleased that they’re only slightly more than normal retail prices on some products? Where are those huge savings Amway talks about? Oh wait, that’s right: their real business is not that on-line store: it’s the MLM operation, and don’t let them fool you into thinking otherwise.

440 Responses to Amway = Wrong Way

  1. bww/gala xibo DP says:

    I am with 80-90% responders who says from their experience with Noway/mway.
    Do not trust..I repeat DO NOT TRUST mway suckers.They lie left and right and defending every objection you have very tectically/cunning way.
    I can also tell people who are in for while/core will not listen to others/outsiders as
    they got brain washed through cds,books,conferences/team call,night owls and what not?! thats what I was when i was core 2 yrs.
    you will only realise the truth if and only if you take off from that brainwashing crap for a while and open yourself to others experience and inputs.
    I was really shocked when I read on internet and backed up by listening Rich Devos
    “directly speaking” tape which reveals top guns buracracy and alround system abuse.
    I couldnot believe it.I watched NBC Date line report of Quixtar/mway from the diamond Bo shot talking abut the scam/system abuse and all the lies from so called system supplier top systems like bww,wwdb and others who suck more money out of their ibos than what they can make from its use?! if anyone can realise in the name of teaching and training ,if you analyse most of it is BS,tooting their own horn about what kind of toilet they flush,car drive and home ,jewellery buying and blah..blah..and this is all oyu are paying top dollars,can you believe it?and how about all xtra marrital scandals many top guns are in,and They talk about mway saving marriages.what a farce!!! I know many ibos are good ,humble,honest and hard working want to succeed
    and make money,they are given the system dope in the name of hope that success is round the corner…!Thanks to internet..which these top guns hate it because people talks about their scams and lies.They always teach not to watch TV,internet,talk or associate with other(even family members!?)than your own upline group,they are so scared of their deeds/lies being open up.What a CULT..
    My only word is just say no,and do not even say i will think about it,even a small openness towards Amway might doooom you.
    We need to cut open the more system abuses and lies from uplines…

    • Who cares says:

      Well it work for me 23 years old and I’m sure most of you guys are older then me working but I don’t hey To each his own

      • kenneth edwards says:

        Young skull full of mush. At 23 you should be enjoying life, not trying to separate your friends and families into “dreamers” and “losers”.

      • Kleia says:

        I am slightly older than you. I’m twenty-five-years-old and I’m in my second year at medical school.

        During my last year at high school, my boyfriend, to whom I am now married, and I were almost sucked into Scamway. Even after we repeatedly turned our attempted recruiters away, they followed us around town, begging for our attention. We had a bit of fun with them for awhile, allowing them to drive us on 500km road trips to various meetings – meetings for which they were required by “the business” to cover our entry fee – but after awhile we both got sick of them.

        Fortunately, we left the country soon after we rejected these losers for the last time. I think that if we’d still been in their vicinity, they’d still be hounding us.

        For me, the turning point came when they began boasting about how they would soon be attending dinner parties with rich people. This appeared to be their ultimate aim – sitting with crystal champagne glasses in their hands, telling strangers that they were successful. Because they lived in a rental house which was falling apart around them, I guess I can see the appeal of Scamway to them. But, since every conversation in the western world amongst strangers begins with the question: “So, what do you do for a living?” I was horrified at the thought that I might one day, instead of being able to say, “I’m a doctor” saying instead, “Oh, I sell soap for Amway. BUT I’M RICH I’M RICH I’M RICH! Just like you!” It was readily apparent that for this couple, as it was for many of those we met, they’d been sold a scheme masquerading as a dream tailored to meet their aspirations of “being rich.” They simply couldn’t see any other way of achieving this goal. They were weak people lured into the worship of money.

        During their boasting, this couple accidentally revealed that they’d been involved in the business for eight years. Both the wife and husband were working full time outside their “business” and were paying babysitters to care for their child while they scurried around town in their beat-up car showing the plan. As soon as they realized their error, they hastened to tell us that they “hadn’t been working the business” and that if they “just put a little more time into it” they’d be as successful as the speakers at the meetings to which they were driving 500km per week to scream and shout about as anonymous faces in the crowd.

        So yes, I’m still working. I’ll be working for quite some time – all my life, if I can. Because I want to. I’d continue working if the option for easy retirement was offered to me tomorrow. I have absolutely no desire to slop around boasting about being rich – particularly if it’s not even true.

    • Abraham says:

      Why are people so angry about Amway saying that Amway or the amway sponsors make lot of money? All the companies in the market definitly make lot of profit. Wallmart spend millions of dollars just for advertising itself. From where the millions of dollars come? From you and me. Why you are not blaming Wallmart for making this kind of money?? Even if u blame, it does not affect them as they dont have to worry. They will simply spend money advertising heavily and customers will watch TV and buy products which are advertised heavily. Whereas in Amway, somebody will be talking to u directly instead of spending crores on advertisment and u have an oppurtuinity to blame him saying ‘u r making profit’. Yes Amway is not any charity institution. All companies are in the market for profit. Why blame Amway alone?? Amway simply gives u as a customer, a free oppurtuinity to make some buisiness. Whereas Wallmart, they dont give a shit whether its benifitable to you or not. They will simply advertise, make already rich film stars more and more rich by paying millions for advertising and customers will go to supermarket and buy these stuff and wont blame anybody too.

      • Rohit Prashar says:

        Well said Mr. Abraham. I wanted to say same thing. Only one thing you missed is PRODUCTS. Products are very good for health and there are organic as well. If you can pay good for wearing brand than why not for eating. There are millions of people those are enjoying due to this business. Amway gives health and teach people about relationship, character and dignity through world class awesome Brit World wide system, which either its taught by parent or by BWW system.

      • Anonymous says:

        Maybe because Wal-Mart isn’t selling you FALSE DREAMS, they’re selling you products. Duh.

      • Mr.X says:

        LOL ^, Then You Dont buy “FALSE DREAMS”, Buy only products from Amway too (Since they are way better than any products available out there) … Atleast they have options for people like you and me to be their distributors without any investments and offer us to make money if we want..

        Haters are gonna hate no matter what :)

      • Albert Ling says:

        Abraham, your statement is clear! Totally agree with you. This article most probably written by the “Quiters” of Amway. There are several wrong points and statements.

        First is the poker game, you cannot simply analogous this game with Amway. Because when we sign up/sponsor new distributors, we make no profit on them.

        Second is the Robert Crisp, are you sure about his commission of only 200,000? I doubt it! It is clearly stated in Amway bonuses dividend, it should be roughly around 21% of it (around 20-30 millions).

        Conclusion, no one fail in/losing money to Amway, only people stop and quits!

        Albert from Malaysia.

      • Shantanu says:

        Well, legally it is not possible to prove that there is is scam. India, I think it comes within the 5 largest markets of the world. So it will be easy to earn money if Amway can capture Indian market; they know this very well and one most vital thing is “unemployment”. they have targeted both the things. Most of the ABOs are college boys, unemployed youths, housewife,… This has becoming or became a shortcut way to make money.

        It is correct that Amway does not expense much money on advertisement but pays a lot of %age to the ABOs and their upliners. what about that ?? Actually the concept of the middlemen (distributors, wholesalers, retailers) exists here also but Amway ABOs don’t say so. They say that we have no middlemen like others. You are getting products directly through company. But the fact is when a person purchases a product from Amway a %age goes to ABO (20%) and several other %age (as commission) goes to his (ABO) upliners. They say that one can gain Lacs of Rupees by joining Amway (Silver, Diamond….. etc.), my question is, where the money (profit) is coming from ?? Direct Selling ??? Then what is the concept of Group selling ?? This is obvious that it is too tough to earn Lacs and crores by selling products personally, practically impossible. If somebody is earning Lacs and crores profit then just imaging how much amount of sale he has to make per month ???

        It’s nothing but an intelligent scam and a open challenge to Indian economy.

      • rr says:

        Not to mention the ghettoness and obesity you see at walmart, you have to remember those people eat from walmart, more bang for your food stamps. I wouldnt say theyre smarter than me. i mean im pretty sure you would agree waiting in line every three months for hours to get a pair of over priced micheal jordans is dumb. Or buying micheal kor purses when you live on government assistance. I buy maybe $100 of organic stuff every 3 months from amway cause i like and it works. I go shopping for dog food at walmart.

    • Mirror says:

      hope you got paid for this shit you wrote

      • Fuck Off says:

        Albert Ling: Your a fucking douce bag. It sound like your dad fucked the wrong whole. Wake up, let me ask you one thing you say that anyone that is introduced but doesn’t try it a looser? Any one that has started it and walks away is a looser as well. Well fuck stick what job did you leave before you stuck Amway up your ass and started to believe these CULT members. Jack Ass

      • Lol says:

        f*** off! do not have a brain to respect others opinion. When people like him join amway, no question he is not going to succeed . This is a people business, you need people skill to succeed in MLM. Anyway, how many people make money from face book. Only Mark , right? Then why 3 billion people in the face book build the network for only one man to succeed? What do the get return. An opportunity to waste time and read about others gossip

    • shaunn says:

      Amway products are more to market to people that have good income. You must know who your customers are and where you can find them at. They are people willing to spend $4 at Starbucks for coffee when they can easily go to McDonald for a large coffee for a $1. People that have success in the business know the type people who can budget for a better quality. If im producing $50,000 at my job field and you came to me trying to sell me amways you have a great chance of me being your long term customer because i want quality. If im producing $15,000 and you try to sell me amways product i will reply “why would i buy your lip gloss for $30 when i can go to walmart and get one for $5?” You cant mix Starbucks with people making 15,000 a year, they’re more focus on buying what they need in order to survive and if your selling what they dont need, your business dies. You can put dollar store there and see great success.With people making 50,000 a year you cant mix dollar stores with donald trumps. They have all what they need. What they are looking for is what they can spend money freely on that will improve the quality of their lives. Such as jewelry, ferrari, condos, etc.

      When you join any network marketing business or any business in general, your not suppose to care if your uplines or the person on top make money from you. Someones going to make off you wether you like it or not. Your landlord makes money from you by you paying rent. Your phone carrier makes money from you by paying phone bill every month. The owner of the business that you work at (job) makes money from you by you selling your time that you have on this planet. This world is designed to take money from you daily, weekly, and montly. You need to design a business that takes other peoples money monthly and leverage it.

      Amway is good if you know how to market to the right people, capture leads, tell them why they should buy your products instead of what they already buying. Locations matters, if your an ibo on amway yours products will be sold to luxurious type of crowds. And for recruitin . Others into doing Amway business, you have to know who they are, what there budget is, and how this can help them be able to quit their jobs and start other business of interests. When i recruit people i dont really tell them all that hype like its a 11billion business and all that selling dreams hype becausethey do eexaggerate it to make it motivate you. I simply tell them, heres a business opportunit, you pay this $100, you will have access to sell these products that you dont find in retailers, sell these to the people that value quality, build your own clientel of customerbase , after some time by nature, you will soon be able to quit your job, and live off of amways inventions from nutrilites, etc. Entrepreneurs and businessmen are not idiots. You dont have to hype em up, money motives all the time. Just show em how they can make money off it and thats it. None of that meetings and motivational stuff. Because if all that hype motivated you that means you have had no goal to begin with and if you fail then soon you will start saying on youTube and on blogs about how its a scam. And other untelligences will believe it because they seen it on youtube and blogs. I look for people that have people skills, and can make smart decisions based upon investigation. Saves time and you will be making really good residual income.

      Always look at what you can gain off any business.

      I hope I’ve help in anyway :-)

      • Mom of 1 says:

        I definably agree with you. I have been an IBO for only a month now, and i have already recognized that fact that our (amways) products are in fact NOT cheaper than in store brands. I HAVE realized however, that those (unlike myself) that have enough money to more enjoy the quality than the quantity of their products very much enjoy what i have to sell. And even though i have only been apart of this company(s) for a month, i have made an impressive profit compared to my husbands bi-weekly salary of him working his a$$ off and never being home. This is not a business for you to attempt if your family(s) or friend(s) make less than eh… 30k a year. Those relatives of mine that can afford to buy what they want when they want it have that leisure to do so.
        I have noticed that by trying my own samples the products ARE legit, and DO seem to do a better job than normal (store bought) products. such as the cleaning products, the nutrilite, and the xs energy drinks. My customers have also noticed a difference because they continue to call and respond to me without me doing much effort for more information or products available.
        I WILL SAY HOWEVER: my husband and i attended those “inspirational meetings” and “hype-meetings” and im sorry to all my fellow IBO’s, but the only thing that ran through our minds was CULT. 100% creepy we left early! now, even after saying that, the meetings have NOTHING to do with Amway as a business whole. They told us we could run our business ANYWAY WE DESIRED. It just so happens that those meetings are NO LONGER in our business plan!
        So as a current IBO i WOULD recommend trying it out. If you don’t think you could make any money, or if you just simply don’t wanna do it anymore they have a three month guarantee that you can get your full money back for the start up fee. and you can keep whatever money or products you make/received through those first three months. So i simply told my husband that if i couldn’t guarantee us 200$ of GUARANTEED extra cash every month (by our 3rd month) we would give it up. Its actually very simple, I am already expecting a 100$+ check by the end of this month. Our sponsors where already friends of ours who have been doing pretty good with the business and knew we needed extra cash, explained all the risks and guarantees. and I haven’t been able to find a downside to anything they have said yet. (except for the meetings of course meh)
        So to sum it up:
        1. I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU TRY IT OUT:
        a. if you need extra cash
        b. you will get your money back by the third month if you dont care for it FOR WHATEVER REASON.
        c. i have been successful at making an actual profit compared to the time and effort put forth
        2. beware of the meetings
        a. make sure you go to the IBO introduction meeting [thats ONE meeting], thats where you learn the terminology and FACTUAL info about the numbers, products and so forth.
        b. if you NEED INSPIRATIONAL HELP because YOU think it could help you (i understand some people need that)
        c. don’t allow pressure to make your decisions about YOUR business for you.
        3. It IS possible to make money doing this business with little effort. I’m proof of this.
        4. If you DO decide to try this out, just be completely honest with potential customers.
        a. parents can especially tell if your LIEING about something and its not worth loosing friends or family over. I dont lie to anyone. i tell it exactly how it is, even if I’m told (by other IBO’s) to NOT say something.
        and last but not least the MOST IMPORTANT THING I COULD SAY TO POSSIBLE IBO’S
        **THIS IS YOUR BUSINESS. YOURS. YOURS. YOURS. DONT LET ANYONE, NOT EVEN YOUR SPONSOR, TELL YOU HOW TO RUN YOUR BUSINESS**
        there is a difference between sheep. and WOLVES. don’t be a sheep.

      • kenneth edwards says:

        No, you’re just regurgitating the babble you’ve been fed.

      • IBO beginner says:

        I agree with Shaunn. Don’t waste your time to target the wrong people. In fact, for beginner, you can just try out the products first and see if you like the products. If you don’t even like the products then just walk off. Beside you enjoy 19% discount from AT&T bill, which is my primary purpose in joining in the beginning LOL.

        I don’t see any risks to try out this business. You can actually return the products in 6 months, which is pretty fair I think. However, I don’t think the people I know will spend $300 a month on Amway products, so I don’t expect anything except my 19% off my phone bill. When you have low expectation, then you feel much better.

  2. Jeramy C says:

    Yes in deed! This blog could not be more right. I could not of said it better myself. The Kumar Associates who responded are the worst kind of people on the planet. I have been in sales for over ten years and do extremely well at it. What they said is exactly what a horrible salesman says about some calling out there horrible product they are trying to sale. They are obviously involved with the Amway company. They remind me of poor republicans…Stupid

    • Frank says:

      Republicans?? Really?? You lost creditability with me. Jeez!!!

    • Joecool says:

      LOL, I had a brush with Kumar associates. They left hate filled messages on my blog and they even sent me some emails. They also did not allow my truthful comments on their own blog. They must have something to hide.

  3. bww/gala xibo DP says:

    Jeramy is right,all bww and all associates will redicule any other biz. other than scamway/Mway?!! they have no/very little appreciation or respect for any other proffession as mway is the only valid/doable/make sense kind of biz. in Their F**
    Eyes/craped mind.
    To all Xibos,instead of shutting off/keeping quite open them and let others know about them,so at least you can warn other innocent people from getting ino the trap.
    These Bww/Gala/kumar groups target indian origin immigrants/H1 /new bies and play with their emotions/dreams,make them feel like they care and before you know you are already chanting..Go diamond..go eagle and all their fired up !!.. mantras…
    once you are in ,its equally/more difficult to get out,its like the amway MUD..got stuck.
    If you want to ask questions and get out,you are in for a big guilt trip and blame the victim game/technic…they will try to emotionalise you,mostly the wife if you are couple.the upline lady will be preaching/teaching all the time,sucks out her mind.
    To keep harmony in the house man has to bite his tongue. if you are following cardinal rules,you can’t question upline,only follow him.

    • Dipanjan Majumdar says:

      Have you ever considered to become another Kumar or another Kanti Gala? Years back they started their journey in Amway as a single distributor without a group. They followed the cardinal rules, and followed their uplines. Today they have an immense organisation and they earn in millions. But it is very true that everybody will not listen to their uplines, will consider BWW as a scam, and never ever do the business. It is the basic nature of human beings. When Gallelio tried to say something, people smothered his voice. I am in Amway business and I earn. I listen to my uplines because I understood that business. I must listen to someone who is more knowledgeable than me in that aspect. I may have a doctorate degree in rocket science, but in this business, my uplines know much more than I know. As this business is in a win-win mode, so there is only profit in following him. But everyday I encounter many people with a mindset of yours, but I am not bothered by them, because this business can be built by those people who are open minded and understands simple things. I reiterate-simple things. Do you know sometimes even genius also loose it. you must have heard that story, that Newton for his two cats(one large and the other small) made a cage and ordered to make two doors, one large and another small. Newton’s mind even not registered that the smaller cat can pass through the larger door, so there is no need to make two doors.
      Amway business is network marketing business. I request you to read Robert Kiyosaki’s “The business of the 21st century”. He is not an Amway distributor, so you can safely read his book and get enlightened.

      • anjali says:

        hats off to you..!

      • hn says:

        What is this business you talk about?

        With soap in hand and hope in heart cometh the Amway man.

      • hn says:

        Doesn’t the fact remain that 97% people end up using the product themselves than trigger business? Who benefits by that?

      • kumar nishant says:

        Amway is mother of Network Marketing. No other business can compare with this. It takes Guts to succeed in the life. Amway is only for them who are real MAN !!!… Only having moustache is not enough to show power of MAN. you can built in part time, without disturbing your profession. Instead of going Movies, gossipping, Socialising, Watching TV,, you can create huge network. Of course, it takes lot of efforts. NO PAIN NO GAME. But once you understood the potential of this business, It gives you lots of recognition and rewards.
        Most of the people in this world lost wonderful opportunity without proper information.
        I just give you an example:— One friend to another friend:–
        I will give you 5 crores rupees, would you jump from an aircraft to Land. then another friend answered:—- NO..

        He said,; you missed golden opportunity to become a millionaire.. he said,, How:-“because you didn’t ask whether the Plane is flying or at the Land..”..
        I hope you can understand what I want to share !!

        This business is only for openminded and real MAN !! Wish you all the best !!

  4. Since I started selling stuff (computers and bus tours) from my room through my own 1-800 line at 13 years old, someone from my family believed Amway was the greatest opportunity of her life and thought I would easily be convinced to join in. I asked to see their wholesale price and pointed out that a computer from the same manufacturer and model, with exactly the same specs was $300,00 more expensive from the Amway wholesale price than MY actual retail price. I quickly checked their pricing for food and told her that even cereal boxes where $2,00 more expensive than our local shop. She responded: Yes, but once you are an Amway distributor, it’s just like Amway is also your company. I told her she should stop wasting her time with that funny business that distributes to its”wholesale” channel at 30% markup over local “retail stores”. Eventually she quits it, but she tried very hard and wasted a l0t of money on this scheme, on top of wasting hundreds of hours to learn the American Way !

    • AMARJIT SINGH says:

      Its 100% true. If you want to spoil your relationship,friendship, your children education and hard earned money(which can be yours in your bank account).then go and join this foolish making buisness.they totaly brain wash you and you will have nothing to say.

      • Lol says:

        If you spoil your relationship and friends, it is your problem not amway. Amway does not tell you to go and argue or fight with people to get them in. If they do not like go find somebody else. There are 7 billion people there. Just find 6. We are brain washed to be successful in any situation, but not to be broke. Anyway you give your hard earned money to retail store right? Do they give you the opportunity to make money?

  5. Nick says:

    Your logic is broken on the whole black box & amway $271 million loss. You have forgotten to factor in the value of products that these people are buying and would have to buy elsewhere.

    • Michael Wong says:

      I am talking about whether this is a net income generating business. If you want to regard it as a discount shopping network instead of a supposedly income-generating business fine (although it’s highly questionable whether you get savings anyway), but it’s billed as a net income-generating business.

      • Joecool says:

        The only net income goes to the people selling cd’s, seminar tickets and other support materials. The IBO’s are paying for the honor or selling overpriced Amway products.

  6. Dipanjan Majumdar says:

    You people have gone mad. Either you do not have the slightest brain to understand the Amway business or you are intentionally making noises.
    1. Somebody wrote If I sell my friends or relatives amway product at a profit, then I will poison my relationship. Funny, really funny. If I have a shop and my friends come to the shop to buy anything, shall I give them products without profit? If I have hundreds of friends, then my business will be gone.
    2. Now about compounding. Do you really understand compounding? If you are a salaried employee in a company, then your boss is already compounding his time by recruiting you and your colleagues. You cannot do that because you do not have as much money as the owner of your company has.
    3.Do you know 95 percent people in this world only work by themselves. Only 5 percent people have true organization, and you work in that organization and get satisfied with the idea that you have done a great job. By doing amway business everybody has a chance to develop an organization of businessmen.
    4. 75 percent drop out. That is pretty fine. Who said that everybody will become successful in this world. Only few percentage of people becomes successful in the real world, and that is true for Amway also. NO WONDER.
    5. Amway bypass middlemen. That is true. An amway distributor buys directly from Producer at a distributor price. There is no secret game here. If he retails that, he will earn 20 percent profit. Fine. N

  7. Dipanjan Majumdar says:

    a few points to add.
    6. You make only 0.2 percent of profit of your sales volume. Who said that it was my sales volume? That sales volume was created by a many businessmen in my organization. So the main profit will be earned by the downlines, and then the remaining will be given to the upline. That is unique, and hence it is not a pyramid. In this business a downline distributor can reach higher pin and earn more than what upline earns. Do you know that?
    7. To develop this business you should have an investment mentality. For any business, that is true. Can anybody show a business(ethical and honest) where one can earn but he does not have to invest any time? The major point of amway business is that it is a flexi business and can be done any time, any where.

    So Mr. A, B, C, D etc, Please note. Do not try to confuse people with misunderstood facts. Try to understand the network marketing concept. Please read Robert Kiyosaki’s “The business of the 21st century”, and try to enlighten yourselves.
    Thank you for reading.

  8. Dipanjan Majumdar says:

    Mr. Mike, Please Please note that no amway distributor makes money when his downlines sell amway products. Rather he earns when his downlines buy Amway products. So you did not understand the business concept clearly.

    Have you ever compared the product quality of Amway and that of other discount stores. Now you may say that all are same. Unfortunately it is not. Any reputed network marketing concept is live when its products are better than that of market equivalents. You may ask why? Actually the answer you know already, but did not realized. Suppose I am your friend and I am an Amway distributor. I went to your place to make you my customer. I showed you the catalog and tell you about the products. Now two things may happen, first, I do not know in detail about the products, so when you will question me in detail, I will not be able to answer. So you will not buy and say that the products are costly and the business is useless. (as you are saying now). Secondly, the art of selling lies in listening. If I do not know your requirements, I will try to push products, and in all probability I will fail to do so. So art of selling as well as the knowledge of products are utmost necessary even to sell products to friends and relatives. Average Amway distributors develop this business as a part time one, and to many, selling products is an entirely new job they never ventured. There are few people in the world who can truly sell refrigerators to Eskimos, but Amway businessmen are not classed among those. So how Amway became 11.3 billion dollar company and #44th rank holder (Alticore-Amway’s parent organization) among Fortune 500? The answer is product quality. We, the amway distributors are well equipped with exceptionally good products. Nutrilite is World’s #1 dietary supplement brand, Artistry is among the top 5, with whom Amway has tie ups. Yes even after that to become successful, one has to know the product details, and art of selling, otherwise you will simply say, that the products at discount stores are cheap and Amway products are costly. Am I right?

    • hn says:

      I know many people who if undistracted by Amway hope would have done well for themselves as professors or scientists or engineers. Today they live in their spouces incomes or have moved into their parents house but still talk big about their business because ….they have to. If they dont talk that way how can they ever hope to catch a downline ever?

      • ChampUCH says:

        Hi,

        That is a perspective on human mindset .
        Practically many people who have made big in this industry were already successful and top-class in whatever they were doing. Intelligent people makes correct choices and that is the reason they succeed. To me making big in this business does not mean to change your focus from your primary task which may be studying , doing job or taking care of your home.
        Its only about utilizing your time with which you would be unproductive .
        If someone cannot understand the risk with the predictability of this business then there are loose nuts to be tightened.

        Regards
        ChampUCH

      • Michael Wong says:

        The most successful people in this business are the ones who realize that the profit all comes from the suckers who sign up for it. That’s why they make all their money selling instructional videos and motivational materials to other Amway distributors.

    • hn says:

      “So how Amway became 11.3 billion dollar company and #44th rank holder (Alticore-Amway’s parent organization) among Fortune 500?”

      On the backs of the 99.95% people who buy soap with hope that they will be like Kumar one day, because Kumar told them so. Many businesses walk on the edge of ethics and legitimacy. Amway is one of them. Enron was another. In some societies they are well out side of the legal limits and they get arrested. Did you know that the CEO of Amway is currently in a jail in a south Indian state for exactly the same reasons Mike has pointed out. Just because it is legal and makes tons of money for the investor (here for CEO and a handful of people) does not mean it is a worthy pursuit. Also what is with the inability of Amway folks to view friends and family for what they are and not potential down lines?

      • Rohit Agrawal says:

        lol amway Ceo arrested but y he arrested? do u know the fact because some bad distributor using AMWAY’s name making money by fooling people. let me explain you suppose you are a customer and i am selling you product in higher then MRP. price will you buy it from me…. you will say me No,
        now the lady who claim against amway even dont know the distributor and even she is don’t have a recipt of product which she buy from Amway Distributor… And kerala Police arrested Our Ceo.. Now getting arrested U.S assembly get attention and call to sonia gandhi to release him right now after that sachin pilot is now making some rules..

        this not a chitfund company

      • Lol says:

        Politics

  9. viky says:

    MR.MIKE,PLZ TELL how much u get from hidden source for defaming amway.if u r not practising some things in life u cant become habitual for them.in same manner without getting enough knowledge and understanding amway people like u think that only doing some discsussion n only joing people without explaing them how to deal WITH amway instantly u can make money??one thing always keep in mind,despit many peoples negative view,that we aproximately give our hardwork mony to people in retail shop without any hasitation n problem.give them our 28 year sallery without relationship.at that time no single rupee discount gurantee given by retailor.and in return we purchase qualityless phosphate products harmful for environment.In job,u r bounded only with hardwork n just obeying boss.in spare time waste only time with barganing for middleman needs,thinking like cheaper,suggesting economists about world economy with friend,this is our real achivement.we job mentally people can easily teach great players about their games yhat how they should play.our countrie economy should be in such a way supposing ourself as a famous economist.we r not ready to change anymore BUT REALY WANT THAT SITUATIONS AROUND US SHOULD GET CHANGED.So instead of blaming AMWAY,do something useful for ur family without wasting time in group of Great scientist friends.

  10. Samir Ray says:

    Mike, you make some stellar points. I have been in touch with Amway associates. They are encouraging me to join into their team. They seem like genuine people in their late 20s and 30s. But they really want my network and want “pyramid” scheme to grow. While I agree with Dipanjan about the quality of the products, I would not choose to severe family relationships for the sake of reaching platnium, emerald, and diamond levels which might take YEARS and perhaps DECADES to reach.

    • Joecool says:

      Working for years or decades is no assurance that you will reach any high level in Amway. You are more likely to end up with big financial losses if you are plugged into the system.

    • ChampUCH says:

      I think the problem lies in black and white scheme of things : I would give my opinion of Amway and see if that resonates well with you fighting chaps :

      Few positives:

      1. Most of the people ( who are not even associated to Amway) says that products that are manufactured by Amway ( Nutrilite , Artistry, LOC) are of good quality, and some of them being of exceptional quality although pricier.

      2. Definitely Amway is not pyramid scheme who benefits boss at the top. Because for lot of people who even make 200 – 300 $ a month is a good part time income. There are instances where because people build a good solid organization are making decent money however at the same time person who sponsored them is not making any money.

      3. Many people learn people skills, which are really useful in everyday dealing with people

      Few Negatives :

      4. Many people who hate Amway , usually hate Amway because of worse or bad customer / sponsorship experience , u know people chasing harassing and what not.
      This is the biggest problem which everyone is aware of . Now, although there are guiding principles set by Amway their is no enforcement because of which unethical behavior of many IBOs cannot be checked.

      5. People definitely promote books / CDs and workshops , but everyone is in total control of saying ‘NO’. So again its a matter of harassment if anyone forces someone to do it.

      Practical Outlook:

      6. Thinking from a time perspective, there will never be a time when the products innovation will stop or people will not look to different ways of making money . For an example , you are a person joining in 2013 and lets say if you make a goal of having 25 people in your organization by 2016. Assuming everyone doing bare minimum of 150 pv translates to an earning of 1200 USD . If this guy was earning lets say 4000 $ in 2013, you dont expect in this standard economy to get a raise of 1200/4000 = 30% in 3 years. But this is possible using Amway or for that matter any good Direct selling company. I know everyone can say that example doesn’t hold true, but the practicality in direct selling is time component and persistence and good ethics.

      7. Amway is 11.3 B $ company, it definitely could be 20 B $ in 2020 , how much one can tap into that revenue increment , definitely should be able to make money.

      I hope this information is useful to everyone.

      Regards
      ChampUCH

      • Joecool says:

        Amway is a scam. How many people actually make 200-300 a month in Amway? Probably 1 out of 200 or so. That’s the problem with Amway. It’s a business that very few people profit from.

        Amway can do 100 billion. It’s only good for Amway. The IBO’s don’t make more money because Amway does.

        Amway did 5 billion some years back. Average IBO made just over $100 a month. Now Amway did 11 billion and the average IBO made just over $200. The only reason for the difference is that Amway disregarded more IBO’s in the count in their most recent publication.

    • AMARJIT SINGH says:

      True

  11. Mona says:

    I guess everybody here has dicussed about the good and bad things about Amway, so no point of adding my point to it. I just beleive from my personal experience that this business opportunity has made me positive, and optimistic in my professional and personal life too. And something , which is creating positivity in me and taking the negativity out of me couldn’t be wrong. So think smart before making a choice!

    • Joecool says:

      If you took something positive out of Amway, good for you but I noticed you did not mention making any money. Isn’t that the purpose of a business? If not, you can always find ways to learn to be positive outside of Amway.

    • hn says:

      The best way to feel positive by spending your money is to spend it on Charity. You wil truly feel good and positive. Amway gives the you the illusion and hope but not real purpose.

      • Nikk says:

        People give to charity for the satisfaction of giving to charity. Not what the gift would actually do.

    • hn says:

      Did you get satisfaction by trying to sell soap to your relatives and friends? Did that make you positive and optimistic in your professional and personal life too? I have abridge to sell you and why not while paying me for it you can call yourself a CEO and feel good about it too.

  12. Msyoursentimentsexact says:

    I have to applaud what the blogger wrote here. These people who are sucked into the MLM schemes are now badly brainwashed they cannot believe even if you tell them the truth. It is a natural psychological defence mechanism, once you made a conscious decision to do something, you convince yourself to continue believing in it no matter what it takes, and sadly in some cases, no matter who you hurt. It is a normal human reaction to the decisions they have made and set in their minds. It is very hard for them to reverse their thinking and admit that they are brain washed and the scheme, is in fact, a “scheme” cos it will just show to themselves that they made a mistake, a wrong judgment and it shows to the rest of the world. It is not a business opportunity, it is a scheme, where they scheme against you. It is a natural human response to not want to realise that they are fallible and wrong judgments and wrong decisions can be made in their lifetimes. Anyways, the quote “there is a sucker born every minute” is sadly true. Nuff’ said.

    • Tex says:

      If you’re correct, I’m an exception. But I don’t think you’re right – there is a REASON why Amway and the high level IBOs continue to hide and lie about the Amway Tool Scam: They KNOW most IBOs would quit and prospects wouldn’t join.

  13. Tex says:

    Mike,

    Some of your percentages are off.

    You said, “Also remember that it has been estimated that roughly 80% of Amway/Quixtar sales are “self sales”, where the distributor buys his own merchandise, so only 20% of total sales come from an outside source and can be considered true income for the group.” There is no need to estimate, Amway did a confidential study that was violated when Orrin Woodward sued A/Q after being booted. The real number is 3.4%, and even THAT small amount is too high, as many of us were explicitely taught how to make self consumption look like retail sales: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0811/050.html

    Also, you stated, “In effect, 90% of the people in the pyramid must lose money so that the remaining 10% can divide the profits amongst themselves (with the lion’s share going to the people at the very top).” That number has been proven to be well over 99%: http://stoptheamwaytoolscam.wordpress.com/what-is-the-basis-for-the-99-level-of-ibos-losing-money/

    Feel free to update your post with the above information and references, thanks.

  14. circuitrider says:

    Forbes and Success magazines have published articles about the benefits of Direct Marketing, yet I read this blog with great interest, because I am looking at Amway now. Meantime, I wonder why no one points out the auto industry’s MLM scheme. A car is used to get from place to place – yet no one considers practicality. Leather seats don’t mak a car run reliably. and a Rolls Royce will get you to your destination as a Ford cannot, when reliability is factored in. A minister once bought a RR and was critized by many in his church congregation. He produced a chart showing how long his RR would be on the road, compared to how many Fords or Chevrolets he would have to buy to meet the RR projection. His numbers proved that the RR wasn’t a frivilous puchase; it was a sensible investment In addition, from your local dealership to the Ford or Chevvy manufacturer there is a money-making scheme, because everyone involved – the salesman, the sales manager, the dealer and his support team (not to mention the well paid folks at the factory, including the very well-paid executives-are making money on the purchase. Isn’t my crude sketch a picture of a well-crafted MLM – and how many people buy into it with their eyes shut? The money spent to buy that new model car is not paying for the car; the money is paid to the people who produced the car. As I said, they are WELL paid to produce an auto that will last – what – five years perhaps, before a new model is produced to entice the buyer? If Amway can live up to its quality claims, then the business is a worthy one. In other words, the proof is in the pudding – the vitamins, nutrition product, cleaning supplies, and cosmetics. And if you have purchased a new car, a house, or a college degree, what kind of money-back guarantee did you get?

    • Michael Wong says:

      That is the most asinine talking point I’ve seen in a long time. The fact that cars have unnecessary luxury features does not make the automotive industry a pyramid scheme; car salesmen don’t buy 80% of their own merchandise.

      • Tex says:

        Mike, the accurately proven number is 96.6%, and THAT paltry number is too high, as described in my first comment above. It also ignores where the REAL money is made, the Amway Tool Scam, also described on my blog, listed above.

        Circuitrider, I don’t know where to start with the stupidity throughout your comment. I’ll just say this: PLEASE join Amway!

      • circuitrider says:

        Sorry, Mike. I should have labeled the auto industry a pyramid scheme. The money is earned at the top. The buyer is paying mutiple dollars of his earned income for a product that is designed to wear out, making another car a future essential purchase.

        But this is beside the point of your argument. The question is, how do you respond to a woman with four children who was on welfare and is now earning $35,000 a year with her Direct Marketing (not MLM) business? Would you persuade her to follow your guidance and give uo her successful business? And where would you direct her to seek that kind of income, with the freedom she has – home with the kids after school, capable of caring for anyone who becomes sick, involved in their activities, in control of her time?

        And why are you so angry? Did you fail at MLM? Do you know the difference between MLM and Direct Marketing? Frankly, your blog and many of the comments have persuaded me to investigate the Amway business opportunity. If I discover the products are good, I will not hesitate to reccomend them.

      • Michael Wong says:

        No, I never tried MLM. I’m not stupid, and I don’t fall for “testimonial”-based marketing tricks. And you still obviously don’t understand what a pyramid scheme is.

      • Tex says:

        circuitrider,

        Do you work at being stupid, or does it come naturally to you?

    • Joecool says:

      The point is that the auto industry is not MLM. Yes, the owner makes the most money, just like the Amway owners make the most money out of this business.

      But unlike Amway, the autoworkers and the sales people get paid and make money. Most Amway IBO’s make nothing or lose money in their efforts.

      Big difference there.

      • Melanie says:

        I have worked in the auto industry and we do not make as much as people think. You want to talk about hustle, sales pitching, and harassment? The auto industry is it. I have worked both front shop and back shop and I can tell you the auto industry is a rip off. People in sales (Insurance, Auto, Amway, Mary Kay) all face the same thing; you have to convince people what you are selling is top notch. It doesn’t matter is you are in Direct Selling or working behind the counter at a movie theater; “would you like fries?” “For 25 cents more you can have a large coke” Sound familiar? Sales is everywhere and it doesn’t matter who is selling. All that matters is that people stop being Zombies, wake up, and make educated decisions. Amway may not work for you, or your neighbor, but it may be perfect for the kid down the street. Auto sales may be perfect for the person who just loves that “new car smell”.

        The fact is everyone has different car tastes, insurance name preference, brand names tastes, and it all comes down to what is best for each individual person.

        My husband is in the Amway business. He did it to make extra money on the side and has done quite well. We’re not rich and we don’t intend to be with this. I don’t know about you, but in this economy any little bit helps. People don’t become massage therapists because they think they will one day roll around in a limo. The work to bring other people relief and in so doing make a little money on the side. Direct selling is the same way and that individual will decided how far they want to go and how much they want to make; but one has to be open minded and positive. You go into anything negatively then you are bound to fail.

        I didn’t want to join because I am tired of sales..period. What I have noticed about Amway (yes I have gone to the meetings) is I have never run into so many people fighting for the same thing; a chance to quite the hell hole 9-5 job. Yes most Diamonds etc already had a head start in life, but those who are starting from the bottom have such a passion and fire lit inside that I have never seen before. There is no hope from going to college for years and years. Most come out with no job, no way to support themselves, and in more debt than they can handle.

        But I digress. I don’t “love” Amway, but I do respect what it does for those willing to listen. The books are not forced, but recommended. I don’t know about you, but I was never told in school to read about how to make myself successful, or run my own business; only that I should go to school and work. Not much hope there especially with this economy.

        I respect both sides “pro” and “con” about Amway but my final point is, just because it didn’t work for you does not mean it will not work for someone else. I’m am sorry it did not work out for you, but move on. Funny how we take time to post about things we don’t like rather than talk about the things we do like.

  15. Tiff says:

    The mistake is that a lot of you who were in treated this opportunity as a ‘hobby’ and not like a BUSINESS! That’s what Amway is. It offers the opportunity for you to own and operate your own business by partnering with AMWAY and your mentoring team. Not all mentoring teams have a heart for helping the new person get what they want.

    It’s funny that people are calling it a scam when every other ‘new’ MLM out there is slightly modeled after Amway yet ‘only better’. I take it with a grain of salt. I wish those who were in and got out well. I still talk to my friends and family members. I haven’t broke ties with them. I’ve set boundaries but I still have fun with my friends who aren’t in business with me so if you broke ties and loss friends then that’s your problem.

    Whatever you decide to do, it’s going to take effort. Whether it’s this business or the next. NOTHING comes easily, you have to work for it and listen to those who are where you want to be. For all those who’ve had a negative experience with Amway, I hope that you’ve found some good in your experience. Maybe the purpose of your getting in for brief time was to reveal the real issues at home that were being overlooked. Have a wonderful day. (^_^)

    • Michael Wong says:

      Open your eyes. If you start a real business, you make most of the profit. When you start an Amway “business”, Amway makes most of the profit.

      • Tex says:

        Not just Amway, the upper level IBOs make 2-9+ TIMES more from the Amway Tool Scam than from Amway, while the 99+ percent operate at a net loss, as proven on my first comment.

      • panchito says:

        What !!!!? Hey man!! has you opened a business recently ? How much did you invest ? What kind of real business are you talking about ? Did you make profit in 1 year ? the money you used for investing is your or from your bank ? read more investments and financial books before talking.

    • Joecool says:

      Tiff, that’s just it. You don’t own your own business. You are a commission only salesperson for Amway. You must follow Amway’s rules and you are at their mercy because your bonus money comes from Amway. There’s no evidence that hard work results in Amway success. Many people put out blood sweat and tears and end up losing money.

  16. Dipanjan Majumdar says:

    Strangely, some of you are still sticking to a funny word “Pyramid”. What is pyramid income scheme? In a pyramid income scheme the people joined first will earn more than the people joined later, or you can say, the money of later joining people will be enjoyed by the former. But in Amway, nothing of that sort happens. A downline distributor can earn much much much more than his upline. It depends upon how teachable, efficient , and sincere he is. Some people join amway with a thought of making quick money and definitely these people will loose in the long run. It is not an easy business, not a chain or pyramid. You have to work real hard, and help others to become successful in this business. So the people who do not have this mindset and also those who think they understand everything about everything, are loosers. Then they say, we were associated with this business and this does not work. It is quite like “Grapes are sour” phrase. I will advise you to find out that how many diamonds are there in this business. You may check with India, China, Japan statistics. You will be surprised to find that there are hundreds of them. When a developing country like India, can produce 137 diamonds, then will you say, that this business does not work.
    But the bottom line is that you have to work hard, really hard. You have to be determined to help all your downlines to become monetarily successful, and then only you will earn money. I think that is social work also.
    How can I say all this? Because I earn money from this business, and learning everyday to make myself more successful. Before joining this business, I also thought like you, but not after joining it. I have understood the real potential of this business and very very serious about building it.
    I hope one day, you will be able to understand. God bless you.

    • Tex says:

      The point is Dipanjan Majumdar is the one who doesn’t understand.

    • hn says:

      I spend my 20 dollars and bought 50 lemons.
      Then I set up a lemonade stand in front of the mall; paid 5 dollars to rent the pavement.
      I am a business owner. I am a CEO. I own my business. I am my own boss.
      ….5 hours later…
      I have sold 25 glassess of lemonade at $75 cents a glass. I must not be working hard, hay but it is my business..or wait is it hobby? anyways…I am my own boss.
      …mall closes….
      I have sold another 8 glassess of lemonade.
      I drank the rest. Hey…I would otherwise have been buying lemonade at a higher cost and with less quality.

      So if you combine what I earned, the peace of mind I got from owning my own lemonade business, and the fact that the remaining lemonade benefited my tummy…I think I came out a winner.

      Those fools who bought my lemonade and wasted time with their families and shopping ridiculously expensive things at the mall are loosers.

      Look at me…I am the Amway man.

    • kumar nishant says:

      Yes, Most of the person get confused the word:– PYRAMID. or sometime CHAIN..

      Nope, my dear, ITs not Chain and pyramid business.. Ladies and gentleman Do you understand what does it mean:- PYRAMID? … If not then I tell you.. Pyramid or chain means You cannot earn more money who introduced to this business. or say You can not earn more money than your Boss (Means Info, wipro).. so on…………… This is chain business. Its not like First come First serve. just understand the concept first….

      Yes, Its a networking.. (Which is biggest asset like Gold, property)…. You can earn more money than that person who is on the top in your group if your structure is totally strong.

      Example:—- If doesnot matter How long you on Facebook. !!… It matters How many friends you have on Facebook. More friends you have ,, More money you would have…..

      Amway can never cheat anybody….. Who think like dat” Either they never understood real concept or they have an ego what they are doing”……

      Thanks

  17. Dipanjan Majumdar says:

    @ Michale Wong: Very good, you have understood a great fact. But if you cannot invest your time in your so called real business (Anything can happen any time) will you be able to earn? If you are the smartest people in your organization, then it is a real danger. in your absence, the whole system will crumble.

    In Amway, we develop an organization, which creates passive income. So even when you are not able to invest time, money will grow, because you have taught many businessmen to make money, and they also do the same. That is the real pleasure of time compounding.

    In consumerism, the production house earns the profit of 40 percent and the market chain eats up the 60 percent to make the product 100 percent. you buy at 100 percent , and earns nothing. Amway bypass the market chain and hand over the product to you, and gives you an option of earning from that 60 percent. In fact Amway distributes the whole 60 percent to your organization with different percentage income to different distributors, depending upon their respective business to Amway.
    So please do not go with the idea that Amway goes away with all the money, but rather think when you buy a toothpaste from market, how much money you earn? A big Zero. But in the prosumerism concept developed by Amway, you can earn. I think earning while you spend is not a bad idea after all. Take care.

    • Tex says:

      Everyone should know that Amway prohibits the use of the word “passive income.”

      Also, the above 2nd grade “analysis” ignores it cost money to produce a product, so you can’t pay out 100% of the product cost.

      Also, Amway pays out about 33% of the volume: http://news.amway.com/index.php?s=1832&item=13842 – But keep in mind a large chunk of that is paid out to ONLY the upper level IBOs: http://ibocity.com/inetpages/pdf/TL14_112211GrwthIncPgs.pdf

      • Tex says:

        P.S., you can forget about retail markup, very few IBOs sell ANY products, and of the very small minority those who do, they usually smell them at IBO cost, as most Amway products are horribly overpriced, especially at the “suggested” retail price.

    • ted India says:

      tell me one thing

      if i join 6 members in my group, and they purchase the cheapest kit,
      how much I am gonna make?

      Calculate the amount and think if it is worthy investing our time
      Morever these Diamond guys could hace suceeded in any other business also
      calculate it and then think,

      Its not at all worthy

  18. Mona says:

    @joecool : if I would not have earned money through this business, I would not have wasted my time reading all your unrealistic comments. So god bless you and I hope you get to know the real work of Amway business someday!

    • Tex says:

      Everyone should read my “unrealistic” comments on my blog as well: http://www.stoptheamwaytoolscam.wordpress.com

    • Joecool says:

      Which of my comments were unrealistic?

      Are you making a net profit? Somehow I doubt it.

    • ted India says:

      madam,
      please explain this plan to a Chartered accountant or an Auditor,
      They will calculate and conclude that its completely flop idea,
      Although its good for the company , but not for the distributors,

      tell me one thing,
      Upto how many levels Amway distributes money,

      i.e If I sale to person-2
      , person-2 sells to person-3,
      person3 sells to person 4
      ………………….
      ………………
      person 37 sells to person38,

      then will the person -2 get any share from person-38 money?

      • ted India says:

        madam,
        please explain this plan to a Chartered accountant or an Auditor,
        They will calculate and conclude that its completely flop idea,
        Although its good for the company , but not for the distributors,

        tell me one thing,
        Upto how many levels Amway distributes money,

        i.e If I sell to person-2
        , person-2 sells to person-3,
        person3 sells to person 4
        ………………….
        ………………
        person 37 sells to person38,

        then will the person -2 get any share from person-38 money?

  19. Ex Fatty-Boy says:

    I used to be harassed by the “Amwaylayers”, as some of them called themselves. They promised me they were here to lay the way to my future. I think I said “no, I’m not interested” 10 times, before I decided to give it a shot.. My main fear was to have to call, and visit my friends and family since I know that all of them hate the Amway-preachers. I was promised that I can make a website if I want to, and promote it from there. Only to people who opt-in for information (because I don’t want to push the systems to peoples faces). I was also promised to get all the help I need and to never have to make a single phone call..
    So, I signed up, paid the hefty start-up fee and had to go to a meeting to get help to get started..
    They gave me a list, to write down all the people I think I can call and set up a meeting. And was told that I am not allowed to promote it on the internet and I was required to follow a manuscript when I recruit.. No way! Most of the products are worse, and more expensive than the local supermarkets, so how could I even start to persuade people to join? I have 1 (one!) friend who earns 6-figure income from the system, after 12 years of hard work, 20 friends who earn from the commissions from their own purchases…still they are happy to get the 2-figures to their account.
    I did quit after 2 months and asked for a refund, that I haven’t received yet (over a year since I quit).
    I have since found lots of better ways to earn without being a nag, and really believing in the product I promote, and better yet.. 5-figures in less than a year.. without a single phone call :D

  20. VigorousAnon says:

    now, clearly you’ve stated very much everything that Amway did, does, and will continue to be doing (until further technology gets rid of useless vitamins and supplements or whatever seems to be the production..) Expand your thought of no money-making, schemes, and creating a business to endorse their products like a big F.U. and have a nice day.. WE ARE STILL GETTING F***ED IN THE A** BY THE GOVERNMENT ALREADY! isn’t it such a beautiful thought of “oh my goodness! There’s an Independent Business opportunity that I’ve found! It even says there are no limits to your riches and will be free of debt! THIS IS A MIRACLE!” Now I’m just 16 years of age and i feel like your maturity onto attacking Amway is like is the BIG problem that’s causing our economy and our Human Race to be so dumb… There are many problems to be fixed but FORGET AMWAY! DO SOMETHING ABOUT OUR EDUCATION! Why anything that I’m speaking of NEVER been taught to me in my school? Why has education never taught me of never stop dreaming big, use your imagination, and to not degrade yourself among your peers. “Don’t try to be superior among the people around you. That intention leads to death,” an amazing quote from a man who is the Leader of a Cult in Southern Russia who believes he is Jesus… Please, enlighten me.. Another Fleshed-Being with a given soul (Maybe you’ve sold yours for knowledge?) that lives in the same given Earth.. Give me the understanding of life any maybe, just maybe. Next time I will take your writings as a consideration. For now, I will continue on life being as positive-minded about myself and my future.

    With Much Love,
    VigorousAnon

  21. LJM says:

    I like this banter, tickles my funny bone. Too lazy to read past the 25th posting, I like how the ones saying you make money off just buying the products so if you just got a bunch of people buying it you would be set.. To be a compliant business there is a sales quota you have to reach, the whole point in buying the products is so your business volume is increased if something is too pricy like the computer example that popped up a few times.. Think think… Th…I..n…k of couse a local store that buys in mass is going to sell that product at a cheaper price, don’t buy that one thing until you can afford it might I say ‘poor mindset’ pulling ideas from one small corner is not very proof worthy. I’m guessing that one item came from an affiliated store like bestbuy, Kk let’s see bestbuy is in debt number one so if the stores that you went to had that cheaper item they obviously bought a bunch at the time to sell cheap its called marketing amway obviously doesn’t give a shiz nigs about these items as much because they can’t reward there IBOs with greater yielding points and volume. I’ve worked in multiple stores I know how it works. Two, I know the amway IBO’s have soul rights to sell the key products like nutrilite, LOC, Artistry and such so those are the items that give more profit hence why they sell them. It’s just a bonus that they are of great quality. Others points could be you had a bad upline people grow and learn the quitters quit, to be successful is a lifelong process, good to see people that are wanbie entrupenours just give all those real entrupenours your mailing address and you can receive post cards from exotic lands while you are mowing the dying lawn at 65 props too you for taking the easy life to end in a harsh land. Employment is a cruel world especially when your wife is taking orders from another man or your kids hardly get to see there dad. But hey only the few can sacrifice for the greater, it’s not about you it’s about impacting and growing people so you can actually create an impact outside of yourself. Facts are to pile against you 65 to retire? And what sit around and watch tv. While you could pretty much be dead or broke, how’s your current debt bro? This business teaches more the. Making money, but that’s obviously what you were looking for and why you quit cause you were misinformed or you were just to stubborn and lazy to understand. Did you read the comp plan? It is what you put in, it’s called running a business not having fun, but then again you run this business right you have fun cause you impact people you create life long relationships and it takes time. If people are making 8 figures a year why are they still coaching and mentoring an entire leg? Growth usually stops when you stop watering correct? But you have to water it correctly otherwise you will kill the crop? It took mark Zuckerburg about 10000 hours to create and launch Facebook to its destiny, you think that guy complained about a little time, I’m sure he hates his wasted time now that he’s a billionaire and free, wait its a shame he can spend time with his family and loved ones now cause he sacrificed the short term to live the long. I heard it takes 10-15 hours every week for 2-5 years to grow a business in amway. Lets see that’s 5 meetings a week on the low side? To produce a 60-120k income ‘asset’ (notice this term) or 40-80 hours a week for 52 weeks a year 40 years of your life to possibly retire if you get a good job? We will go 40 cause who likes math, something tremendous considering who gives a shiz when you leave work. Now your income has stopped and everything ceases. I heard amway pays indefinite cause its model is indefinite if you build it the right way the way that is teaches the way it was designed

  22. Joecool says:

    If Amway pays indefinitely, why aren’t there any diamonds who walked away to retire in luxury and wealth? Instead we see diamonds quitting or dying while they are still working the business.

  23. All is well says:

    Dear All,

    All of you are right from each one of your perspective.
    But, instead of wasting time in writing all these junk about anything legal/illegal.
    Please work hard in your respective professions to earn some money, which can give food on your table and serve your family needs.
    Make your life useful, rather than wasting time on things which you dont like.
    Always remember , people are people , people are born to make mistakes, and they will continue making mistakes…let them end up in their own ditch or graveyard with their problems and mistakes..you do your best and save yourself and your family from all the negatives of life.
    Regards

    • Tex says:

      It isn’t taking much time to warn others not to be scammed by Amway. Take your own advice and go away. LOL

    • ted India says:

      @ All is well.

      The blogger is creating an awareness among the people ,not to be scammed.
      These are his conclusions.He is free to give advice.
      This isn’t a time-waste dear.

  24. Alfred K says:

    Amway might sound like a business, but it is not. Too many restrictions.
    You can’t compare yourself to a local mart or supermarket. Although their margin is tiny as well, but they have total control. In Amway, you can’t even promote it online.
    I find the rules simply ridiculous. It’s no doubt a good solid business plan 50 years ago, but you’ve to innovate fast in the 21st century.

    I am still an Amway member in supporting of my friend, yes some of the products are good. Therefore I buy something every 6-12 months, only when needed, that’s all I need.

    Lately, I saw a youngster on Facebook where he bought 4 big boxes of mooncakes placed on top of a trolley/cart, ready to be sold to his friends, relatives etc. I can see him being young, energetic and proud. But I find it real pitiful, what you’re doing is not a business. That’s being a FREE salesman for Amway.

    Amway does not need to hire staff and the youngsters are willing to work for free. How wonderful is that. My advise to some of the youngsters, try it, and learn whatever you need to learn. It may or may not work. If it doesn’t, take the lesson and move on fast.

    In the end, there’s only 1 winner: Amway
    :)

    • ted India says:

      @alfred

      exactly.

      In companies if an employer doesnot work, the manager can do “something”.

      something=
      1.Scold the employee
      2.Offer him promotion, salary hike, sanction his leaves etc
      3. Emotional persuasion, eg( i ignored your last mistake, and this is how you pay me back?…etc)

      but in Amway, if the downline doesnot work, we can do “nothing”
      and nothing= nothing,

      so your business in amway depends on uncertainity.

      and anyways , a good salesman will never want that somebody else be taking commission from his hardwork

      6% margin is really less.

      • ted India says:

        a typo in my previous comment

        “In companies if an EMPLOYEE doesnot work, the manager can do “something”.

  25. Emerson lee says:

    well, if you do not give urself a chances you will never see the success and the things u want!
    if you got an attitude jealous the company you will never be clear to identify and the best way for you in life. you might thought you are clearly understanding the amway company but actually your not. thank you.
    you got to know succes is not a easy job for you !
    please think before you judge the company.

  26. sapthagiri says:

    When it comes to business , its all same . You sell cheap products at low cost , valuable products at higher cost that’s yet.if u sell good product at low cost then it’s not business its charity. The only thing which matters is quality for quality people and cost for vise versa

  27. Fry says:

    seriously.. i read this blog.. and it was from an atheist.. and i read this blog?? really reliable..

    • Joecool says:

      This blog is reliable. Amway is a scam and Mike has done a good job of pointing out why that is so.

      • Taps says:

        Yes.
        Its a scam.. That is running for last 50 years.
        now 11 Billion sale per year.
        Top brand in Vitamins. cosmetic and FMCG.
        ans rated A+ by better Business Bureau .
        LOL.

  28. lebuda says:

    ur a liar and a deceiver…maybe ur paid by traditional retail companies to stop them.

  29. Anonimo says:

    Hey guys!! I´m Juan from Argentina, I´m AMWAY IBO, how are you?? I read all the article.

    Sorry about my english, I know it´s not the best haha :)

    Network Marketing is just one different way of distribution, not bad or good, just different, some people like me or millions around the world choose every year make their own distribution business with NETWORK MARKETING, I really like it, so I started my own AMWAY Bussines, I undestand your angry or I apreciate the work that you did in this post, but I can´t undestand Why you did it?? Why try to ruin the dream of some people with doubts, why you try to make bad marketing about us??

    Thanks for read, and sorry for my English again, my best wishes to you!!!

  30. C. Allen says:

    So, for all the hater’s out there, what’s the alternative to Amway? Getting a job? What’s the quality of life doing something that one hates? I’m pretty sure that everyone on this page at one point or another has denounced how much they hate their job. Gone home after a long day, and just turned Al Bundy on their family. Or worse.

    I don’t care if people make it to Founder’s Crown Ambassador or have earned a few hundred dollars a month. In either case, they made money off that opportunity, and did it within 90-180 days, so there is no real loss.
    The basic rule of thumb here is:

    To each his own.

    Many do make it big in a company like Amway, but they aren’t prospecting just anyone. If they were, they’d be publicly traded and be something like an insurance company and would have that stereotype of the crazy guy in the question mark bowtie and leisure suit-type. It’s finding the right kind of someone who would want to earn their freedom, and there are people that are bullheaded enough to do just that, no matter what. And they do succeed. Because Pyramid Schemes rarely give back anything, nor do they donate to organizations and publicly sponsor events and professional athletes.

    To each his own, whatever floats one’s boat. That’s what it comes down to in the end. Don’t forget that there’s a number of hate sites out there for Wal Mart too and other companies too, and those alone are approaching a lot more than any hate that Amway could put out. No company is perfect. Nothing under the sun is.

  31. Brian says:

    Being from Grand Rapids (home of Amway) you do miss out on one thing of your flow chart comparing Amway to a traditional discount retailer – Amway manufacturers it’s own products. They have quite the facility in Ada, MI.

    That’s all I had to say. ;)

  32. Alvin says:

    All I have to say is that I’m with Amway, I’ve done it for 3 years, I haven’t broken any friendships or relationships over it, and I’ve helped over 20 people make more money than they did at their part time gig at some retail store. That’s definitely a scam huh? If amway actually were a scam why would companies such as APPLE or BEST BUY partner up with them? Your numbers on profits and distributing out to IBO’s are ridiculous, why not look at any major retail store and see their profits vs commission give away. I didn’t start with the company over 50 years ago, and you made a statement saying only those people make a lot of money but I not make over 140k a year, and still have my full time job. In the end, it’s a job, you want to think of it as a scam well then you’re going to have to put a lot of sales jobs as scams as well. Everyone in sales is always making money for someone else that’s just the bottom line. If you’re a person that can handle it and make it then great, if you’re not that is it automatically a scam? It’s nice to have the words AMWAY CENTER on the side of the stadium of the ORlando Magics basketball team to advertise such a BIG SCAM huh?

    • Michael Wong says:

      I love this guy’s hilarious reasoning: he basically argues that Amway makes money and companies allow Amway to sell their products, therefore it can’t possibly be a bad deal for the distributors, even though the numbers show that the distributors mostly sell to themselves. Great logic there, pal.

  33. Sylvia says:

    My daughter has recently become an IBO for Amway. I remember the name Amway from many, many years ago. I remember that they had great laundry detergent, which is what I bought back then. I do not like sales as a profession because I am not good at it. It’s good to know yourself. My daughter, on the other hand is very self-motivated. She is working on her Master’s Degree part-time, and has a full-time successful occupation. Amway has many more products than laundry detergent now. I like the women’s dietary supplements, the energy drinks and bars, the cleaning detergents. But I also like having things delivered to me so I don’t have to spend my “time” and “gas” and enjoy what I really like to do: being available for my family, gardening, keeping my grass green, researching about plants, home decorating, crossword puzzles, tv. Additionally, I work a full-time job. When my daughter’s mentor and sponsor come to my home to meet with her, they have not tried to encourage me to become an IBO. I don’t understand how you lose or use family or friends through Amway. People have a mind of their own and can say “No.” If they hear the sales pitch to become an IBO, which I know they will at my daughter’s Open House this month, it’s up to them if they want to try. I already know that I am not self-motivated enough to be a business person. I had a bookstore business once and try lowering your prices to get business instead of selling retail and see where that gets you — out-of-business. You have to make a profit. It’s not a business if you’re not. I’ll let you know in a few months how my daughter’s doing. Thanks for reading.

  34. Fry says:

    “What did he lie about? Amway is a scam and nearly 100% of people who get into Amway make nothing or lose money.” by Joecool

    Another reliable guy.. I’d like to know where you got these facts man..

    Now, going back to the blogger.. Didn’t want to read your whole “statement of facts”.. But, just to make a point.. I just randomly scanned your “facts” and this is what I got..

    Michael Wong.. Blah blah blah.. “Facts” “Facts”, “Negative Rants”, “Just because I can” (OK, here’s the point)
    OK, so how did the top distributors make it?
    “In most cases, they were the first ones in. ” – (WRONGGGG!!!)

    Kindly explain this good sir.. How can a 22 year old couple make a 6 figure income in New York City? I attended the meetings.. Saw them personally.. Or maybe I saw a hologram? Oh, you’re going to ask if I saw their checks, right? Go ask..

    • Michael Wong says:

      I love the way this idiot dismisses business information which Amway is legally required to disclose to the government as “blah blah blah”, and then expects people to be bowled over by a story he tells about someone he met.

    • Joecool says:

      According to Amway, only 46% of their IBO’s are active. That means 54% do nothing. According to Amway income disclosure, about .25 (one fourth of one percent) reach the level of platinum. That’s one in four hundred. The rest are rank and file bottom feeders making little or nothing. If these “fired up” bottom level IBO’s are attending seminars and buying those cd of the week training tools, they are losing money.

      Where is the info from? Amway.com

      Read it and weep.

  35. Fry says:

    (I’d appreciate it if the moderator would approve this as an addendum)

    Addendum:
    Oh, I forgot to mention.. Those 22 year old couple.. Made more money than the 4-5 people above them (uplines they call it).. If this, indeed was a pyramid, then how was that possible?!!

    Oh, answer me now, oh great and all-knowing Mike Wong!!!

  36. Rohit Prashar says:

    First do business and then comment. You wont be able to comment anything on something until unless you have not tasted. This business is full of ethics. They teach what parents teach to their children. Value’s, relationship, dignity, honestly, character and respect women. My father taught me all these thing and same thing again i am reasoning in AMWAY Business.

    If you want to do then do it and if you do not want to do then don’t do. If you think that you are able to make millions without any investment without any risk then please go ahead. I am doing Amway business. I did not invest anything, i don’t find any risk, i do it part time, having Nuterlite for my good health and soon i will be counted in millionaires. If anyone interested then please do contact me to do this lovely business who’s current business turnover is Rs. 60000 Crore.

    Thank you very much for your precious time which could be used for AMWAY Business as well to become rich personality. Have a great attitude.

  37. Fry says:

    Joecool says:
    October 7, 2013 at 8:28 PM
    LOL. They teach you everything except how to actually make money in Amway.

    Michael Wong says:
    October 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM
    Oooooh, more unverifiable personal testimonials. Clearly, the most reliable form of evidence.

    Michael Wong says:
    October 7, 2013 at 11:21 AM
    “… business information which Amway is legally required to disclose to the government”

    Joecool says:
    October 7, 2013 at 8:25 PM
    Where is the info from? Amway.com

    Michael Wong says:
    September 9, 2013 at 9:18 AM
    Why are all the Amway supporters only capable of writing in broken English?

    Reply
    Tex says:
    August 21, 2013 at 9:55 AM
    Nice stream of consciousness…. Now, what exactly is your point?

    Joecool says:
    October 7, 2013 at 8:27 PM
    I make more money blogging about Amway that that 22 year old couple.
    See how that works?

    Finally got your attention Sir. Before I say my statements. First, I humbly request that you apologize to the responders you were accusing of having “broken english”.. We respect each others’ debate and ideas regarding this issue. But that was just racist and inappropriate. Like Joecool said, you guys make money when the readers read your blogs.. At least have that decency to give your readers some respect..

    As for objective information. People can know more about the business oppurtunity and facts on these websites.. Like Joecool mentioned, one of them is amway.com, then forbes.com, and bbb.com (better business bureau)..

    3 things:
    1) Amway is not a scam, it is not a pyramid.. Try to research the other companies and organizations it is affiliated with it
    2) Can someone be successful in Amway? Yes, definitely. It gives the oppurtunity for a person the concept of free enterpirise. Joecool gave the numbers.. And it is true, not everyone will be successful. But, just like in a basketball game, there is onLy one MVP. However, next year there can be a different one. Think about it
    3) The Amway Tools, the Books, CDs, and Associations are used to mentor new IBO’s to build themselves and their business.. Imagine if you want to become a professional football player, and let’s say you want Eli Manning to teach you personally. Unfortunately he can’t teach each and every student like you at the same time. Thta’s where the CD’s come from. Books, to invest in your mind. And associations, to learn more about people in the system..

    That is all..

  38. Fry says:

    Other good stuff about this business oppurtunity..

    We Are Amway
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZQMoJTIDvI

    Amway 2012 Year in Review
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y18bvfqEpRM

  39. Fry says:

    I wonder what are the chances that the moderator will let met post this?

    http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/who-is-amway-critic-joecool-and-does-he-owe-me-50000/

  40. Fry says:

    Haha.. Sorry, I know I said that is all.. But the previous links I posted were sites which I think people who are interested in joining Amway should look at.

    • Michael Wong says:

      Well, you certainly proved me wrong about the obnoxious behaviour taught to Amway distributors, when you spammed a bunch of advertising and promotional links in a row.

      • Fry says:

        Nothing really to prove there. And that was not a spam. Come on man, you’re a very well respected blogger.. You should know what a spam means.. Those were “reliable” sources..

        first was one promoting Amway as an oppurtunity, and second, more information regarding the company..
        other links include articles by cbs and washington post..

        (the other one, which kind of questions Joecool’s reliability as a blogger, i know was inappropriate to actually post.. I do apologize on that.. but thanks for posting.. readers have the right to know what kind of person they are hearing it from)

        Regarding “obnoxious behavior”.. Amway teaching people to be obnoxious.. I mean.. Really?

      • Joecool says:

        Fry has shown what an IBO’s brain is like when they are on Amway.

    • Mom of 1 says:

      after reading a few more blog posts, i do feel bad about the cult comment. it is true that the meeting definitely shows true values that any family should live by. i guess what worried my husband and i was the clapping at specific keywords. like i said before maybe I’m just not the kind of person to gain anything from meetings like those. I’m sure I’m not the only one, and i am a total hypocrite for saying such things about my fellow IBO’s who DO attend those meetings.
      My apologies.
      I am happy to see however that their is a more informed and experienced IBO on this page to not only show me more information i could use to sell my products, but to also know that the company is not miss-represented on this blog by those who have never attempted (or who have and didnt continue it) a business that apparently works.
      Thanks Fry, I truly appreciate the new info and confidence in what I’m trying to do for my family :)

  41. jeff says:

    I dont understand all the haters on here bashing amway for being a pyramid. Every business EVER created is a pyramid, from Ford to Walmart to a mom and pop restaurant, they are all pyramids. The difference is in amway there is real potential to move up and make a really good living whereas at these other places the opportunity to make any real money is taken away from u by the people at the top. They reap all the rewards from the profits while the “little man” breaks his back for the scraps and instead of getting better off he keeps getting beat down, cut back, wages dropped, and insurance cut so the big whigs can continue their lifestyle of luxury. I have friends in amway that are making real money and they arent screwing anybody over to get that money they are honest and upfront about everything this business has to offer and they work with their downline to help them succeed also. I would suppose that most of u haters are people that once were in amway and was too lazy to do anything to make it successful and expected it or someone else to do it for u. Amway is a good company not a scam if it was a scam do u really think that companies like Sears, Barnes & Noble, Best Buy, Bass Pro Shops, or Apple computers would be partnered with them. Get real and use ur heads there are nearly 70 companies partnered with amway no way they have that network if they are running scams.

  42. Jeremy J says:

    The thing that he said about “only few people make it in Amway, and if they did it was early on, because no one heard of it.” well I’m 16 I never heard of it until a distributor spoke to me about joining, and I found out because of my mother. She didn’t know much about it but they just try very hard to sell products. So I looked it up online. POINT IS..that Amway distributors are targeting teens because they are the most gullible and easy to persuade to make money off.

  43. Daniel says:

    So let’s compare to walmart again… I’m pretty sure that building they built wasn’t cheap. And the products they filled it with aren’t they’re products lol. So why wouldn’t you buy from yourself to make money haha

  44. Xydt B says:

    After reading the article and the various comments (some absolutely brilliant ones), I am of a mind that Amway does indeed feed on itself. There is simply not enough new money coming in. If all Amwayers did it full time the entire company would die within a year.

    I want to be an APS (Amway Product Supplier). Endlessly feeding zAmbies is the way to go.

  45. Jimbo says:

    Alrighty then.

    A hearty thanks to all the incoherent rambling posts in the comment section. Your tenuous grasp of the English language makes your opinion all the more relevant. Its a joy to try and sift through it for a scrap of real opinion.
    For the record, I hate making posts without having read most or all of the comments. You sound like an idiot if you’re misinformed.

    To begin: I am not an employee of Amway or a strong proponent of it in any way.
    In regards to a recent comment by Michael Wong: Yes, actually most “firms” or large(ish) companies can be called “pyramids.” To be clear, this does not mean that they are “pyramid SCHEMES.” A firm, company, partnership, whatever, has a small number of executives at the top. They make the majority of the money. Going down, there are increasingly larger “levels” of employees, with decreasing salaries. This is obviously a very simplified analogy, because real firms are exceedingly complex, with many subtle levels of “power” and income. However, the basic idea: few at the top, many at the bottom, holds true.

    Moving on. The according to Amway, average salary for an active distributor in 2006 was about $115 per month, (about $128 in 2013 due to inflation). In 2004, NBC found that the average distributor made about $1400 per year (that’s $130 a month in 2013). It is important to remember that these figures are AVERAGES, not MEDIANS. For those who recall their high school statistics class, the average in this case is skewed because the high salaries of the people “on top” have more statistical weight than the multitude of small salaries at the bottom. Basically the average salary is “increased” by the effect of the few millionaires. Median salary would give a more accurate representation. However, it is also important to note that a large number of IBOs distribute as a part-time job or for supplementary income. A person who actively commits to FULL TIME work is probably not accurately represented by the averages.

    As for the question of ethics, I do not think that selling to one’s friends an family is as insidious and evil as you claim. Sure, guilting a family member into buying an unwanted product is a bit unethical. However, these are products. They are things people want. To cite an earlier analogy, if you owned a convenience store, and your neighbor came in to buy shampoo and a bag of cheetos, would you give it to him for free? Because you know him? Of course not. This is a market economy, and goods cost money. If a person doesn’t buy shampoo from Amway, where does he buy it? In your examples: Walmart. But where does the money he spends go to? Certainly not to the cashier who checked him out. It most likely goes to pay for the production, then the fixed costs of the store, then the executives, the store manager, and so on down the line until the cashier gets….$7.25 an hour? That’s not exactly a killing either.

    So do these MLM’s have a place in our economic market structure? Clearly. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t exist. The fact is that besides Amway, and ignoring the companies that are obvious pyramid schemes, there are many MLM firms in the market. (To be fair, there are also a lot of ponzi-schemes) They fill in a niche role that is not taken by the major traditional firms. They do, in fact, provide jobs, goods, and exist as an alternative to traditional physical stores.

    Most of people’s comments about “quality of the goods” are irrelevant. Actually, not completely irrelevant, rather, rhetorically irrelevant. “Quality tests” are difficult to administer and understand. It is sometimes obvious which products are higher quality than others; a McDonalds hamburger and, say, a Juicy Lucy, are two hamburgers with radically different levels of quality (not surprisingly, a McDouble is waaay cheaper than a juicy lucy). However, many of the products Amway sells; beauty care, nutrition, ect, are hard to judge against their competitors. Much of what people perceive as “quality” comes from their own consumption of the product. If a person enjoys an Amway lip gloss; thinks that it makes her look more attractive, gets a benefit out of the product, then economically, it is money well spent. So much of consumption is based on social factors: how much the product cost (if it is expensive, people perceive higher quality), what other people say about it (and if its more expensive, and “higher quality,” does social status rise amongst one’s peer group?), how good it personally makes you feel. But human behavior is hard to define so I will avoid the topic. Suffice to say, that “quality” is based on perception, and what you say on an internet forum does not have the weight to change anyone’s perception.

    Now, despite the fact that the average IBO makes $1400 a year, this amount is probably not technically an economic profit. Economic profits also factor in “normal profits;” that is, the profits a person would make doing the next best entrepreneurial option (a very poor explanation but here’s an example). If person A, makes $1400 a year selling Amway products, he could have instead been working as a cashier at Walmart and made, likely $5000+ in a year. The normal profit from his investment in the Amway business is -$2600. Thats a net economic loss. Put simply, being an Amway salesperson is a crappy job.

    Finally, the marketing methods. The promos, books, instructional videos ect that the “successful” salespeople sell are…bad. Unethical even. They are a cheap, moneymaking scam to take advantage of dumb people (you need to be dumb to think that $1400 a year is your best option). However, the company as a whole, from what I have seen of them, is not too bad. They push the freedom and flexibility rather than the “rise to the top” mentality. They push selling products and building a network over obsessively adding new “downlines” to create a pyramid. And despite what many nay-sayers believe, many people really do enjoy the flexibility. They don’t like regular office hours. They don’t have the luxury of working from 9-5 because they have kids at home to take care of. Amway is not a scam. Its a very shitty sales job for sure. For many people its a waste of time. But I caution against completely dismissing them.

    As a closing thought, remember that the FTC ruled that Amway is not a pyramid scheme (although they regulated them several times). I don’t know if you have qualms or distrust of government institutions. I, however, recognize that the majority of the people in the FTC are significantly more knowledgeable than I am of economic theory. I trust their judgement.

    • Joecool says:

      Amway’s average income was determined AFTER they discarded people who did nothing. The real average is probably like $60 a month.

      The FTC says Amway was legal but that doesn’t mean it’s a good business opportunity. And if you use more products than you sell, you can be running a pyramid scheme under the cover of Amway’s legal ruling.

    • Fry says:

      Thank you so much sir for your input, it was very informative and unbiased. I am an Amway IBO, and yup, it’s a crappy job.. Haha.

  46. Jimbo says:

    Also in your Walmart example, you mention “Adds markup for operating overhead such as employee salaries, building maintenance costs, etc.” as a cost.

    Employee salaries are minimal because most/many of the employees are the distributors. The distributors have a separate category on the chart.

    Building maintenance costs are less because Amway has fewer physical buildings. Some factories and a corporate headquarters, but no stores like Walmart. So the two boxes in your example do not have equal weight. Walmarts costs are far higher than Amways in this catagory. Maybe the Walmart box should be bigger? I don’t know. It just seems like a misrepresentation to have them equally sized.

    • Joecool says:

      How come Amway’s products cost so much more than Walmart?

      • Erik Bamboo says:

        Amway offers customers “true value” For example, many of Amway’s high quality products are highly concentrated. You get a lot out of one bottle of soap or jar of multivitamins. They may seem expensive when you look at the price of a bottle. But when you think of the quality of the products as well as the cost per use, you will see that Amway products offer great value. And Amway backs that up. They stand behind the quality and value of their products with a no excuses, 180-day satisfaction guarantee.

        What does that mean? If I buy a box of energy drinks from Amway and drink 11 of them and leave 1 can still in there, I can call their customer service line and they’ll either ask me for a different flavor or a full refund.

      • Joecool says:

        True value? Give me a break. Even with concentration, most of Amway’s products are more expensive than comparable products elsewhere. Those XS energy drinks cost about twice as much as Red Bull or some other popular drinks. Amway might have a few competitive products but overall their stuff is way higher. And it has to be in order to pay for the layers of bonuses needed for all the extra middlemen created by Amway’s distribution chain.

  47. Steven Gunnels says:

    I’ve read what your had to say. Yet I still don’t get why you so up tight. Gosh dude! I nean if a person has a dream why not let them pursue it with a MLM vehicle. And hell….. working a 9 to 5 won’t help them get there. I’ll tell whats are scams! Decisions and action being taken due to what nay sayers say. You can’t fight the truth. Business systems such Amway are the future of America. No disrespect. But I won’t stand for something so incorrect. If people want to know avout the company. Why can’t they determine it by intake of information from the source. I’m just standing for MLM. Im standing for all the dreamers. God bless you.

    • Joecool says:

      It’s good to have dreams but it’s also good to have disclosure and information. If you really want to try Amway, have at it but don’t get so hooked that you ignore facts in your pursuit of a dream. It’s still a business that has expenses which can drain you if you ignore facts.

  48. Mia says:

    Hello,
    thanks a lot for this information.. It really benefits me, as lately, there’re some friend trying to introduce me and pull me into their “downline”.
    But, anyway, I’m not sure whether it’s a MLM.. Need your advice..
    Is this a MLM..? How do u think of this..?
    http://www.elken.com/my/

  49. AlphabetSoup says:

    …the idea that by recruiting, supporting, and mentoring subordinate businesses is a fails are to ensure continued growth. Granted that takes time and yes, there is a kickback. But shit, if there was no incentive to foster more businesses then why not just open up my own damn store?

    It’s not all that hard to break even as an IBO, it just requires effort. Not a single acquaintance of mine involved with AMWAY has ever tried to sell it as a work free miracle income. People fail AMWAY for what I imagine are the same reasons that people fail in just about every other endeavor, lack of discipline, responsibility and enthusiasm. It’s the kind of business model in which you get out what you put into it.

    Granted, I’ve watched people take on the cult-like bull shit, I’ve watched people realize that they’ve started considering even their closest friends and family as “potential customers or coworkers.” I’ve also seen some people treat for what it is: a job. That’s what it is, a job.

    How many people start their own business and fail? The answer is a pretty large percentage. Quite often it’s because they didn’t realize just how much work it is to run a damn business.

    And whoever said they’re targeting kids because they’re gullible, maybe that’s right. Or maybe it’s because an AMWAY business is better suited to someone who doesn’t have dependence, who can afford to spend the time building a business, putting in those hours to develop the frontline he needs to be successful. There’s no strain on a wife and children because the 18, 20., and 23 year old doesn’t have those concerns. And as a matter of fact is probably bored with the majority of 128 hours a week spent NOT working their full time job.

    If your bullshit meter is so broken that you look at the AMWAY business model as anything other than a business then you are a fool.

    • Joecool says:

      People fail in Amway because the system and compensation plan is set up that way. You need a hundred or more downline to create a platinum . That’s a best a less than 1% success rate right there already, not even counting the hoards of people who quit.

  50. ET says:

    So I have decided while reading this… The person that published this is one lalacking ambition and drive. I have sat with people that have become millionaires from nothing with Amway and if you haven’t tried it you really have no room to bash it. Scams don’t stick around 50+ years

    • Joecool says:

      Just because some people made millions with Amway doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Some people make millions selling illegal drugs. The mafia makes millions of dollars too. How many people suffer and lose money so a few can make millions?

      • Post again in 3 years pls! says:

        1. Mike, awesome! Great and extensive article, I didn’t verify and check all the facts, but I honestly don’t think I have to.
        2. Joecool, ha. You are funny, please keep posting.
        3. I haven’t read a single post saying “I’m earning 6 figures” and if I do, I seriously doubt I would believe it.

      • Fry says:

        You have a point JoeCool. Awesome observation, you’re a really smart guy. It just makes sense what you said. Mafias making millions of dollars, and drug pushers as well, that’s not good at all. Let’s hope there are a lot more people like Bill Gates, donating tons of money to charities and good causes. Looking at it, someone who has extreme wealth can actually use that kind privilege for GOOD and decides the RIGHT THING TO DO.

      • Erik Bamboo says:

        What exactly do you mean? I’m sorry but that was a weak analogy. I agree with ET though. If Amway was a scam than how could it possibly survived 54 years? Of course it had it’s ups and downs especially in the late 70’s with the big lawsuit claiming it to be a pyramid scheme, but guess what the results of the trial were? Not only did Amway win the trial but the research and results of the trial are actually still used as a template to judge other MLM companies out there for legitimacy!

        Me and my wife have been active IBOs for almost 2 years now. Us both started while we were active duty military, I still am serving and I have never met such a dynamic group of individuals than the team that I work who consist of other IBOs. There is a right way of working this business and there is a bad way. This business has been such a blessing to us, I believe why so many people fail is because they don’t spend time to invest in themselves before they start investing hardcore in their business.

        We live in a world where bad news spreads more faster than good news. Anyone that claims Amway to be a scam has absolutely no credibility in regards to business. And this isn’t some ambot brainwashed rubbish. It’s true

        Like I said Amway’s been around since 1959
        in 2012 they made $11.3 Billion
        they have expanded to now over 100 countries & territories
        They are partnered up with many fortune 500 companies to be to direct volume to their website such a Apple, Best Buy, Starbucks and Disney.

        There is negative in every company. But author of this blog just seems to have spoken nothing but negative about the company and IBOs.

      • Joecool says:

        @Erik,

        Just because Amway’s been around a long time doesn’t mean IBO’s are making money. Amway the company does just fine but they do so because their sales force basically pays for the privilege of peddling Amway products. You market and sell the products at your time and expense. If you don’t use/sell enough to reach the minimum quota of 100 PV, then you don’t get any bonus.

        What makes the scam worse is when these folks end up forking over money to pay for training/tools. The training is ineffective and amounts to rah rah and hype more than anything of substance. Just about anything else would be a better way to make money instead of Amway and the associated tool systems.

  51. David Dubois says:

    Hi, don’t want to join the fight here, but give a quick overview of our meeting with Amway peopke, here in Québec, Canada.

    Yes, you have to MEET them in order to understand the models as they say. We knew the people we were meeting, they were friends, and god dammit, they couldn’t even explain it nicely over the phone. Who does that?! It was the same when we had other people from ACN or Primerica sell their “business opportunity” to us. It was weird, secret and intimate….suddenly we had to talk, face to face. Awful.

    Then they tried to cram us with hundreds of numbers on how we would get rich and be this and that, without once asking if we need anything more in our lives. This business seems built on reaching people in need of extra money…that have time for it. But they come with their big speech and success story, but they never bother ask about your situation. It’s all about recruiting, getting athers to join. …Just do it right? Awful.

    Lastly, nothing is clear. They talk about people making fortunes, but never insist on people making losses, because you will if you do nothing. They scribble drawings on how to built you team, increase profits and make jokes left and rights about how much they were stupid not to have start at a younger age. It’s a lot oriented on making you feel bad not to want to join a team that makes money….without asking you how you ‘re doing already. Awful.

    It made me feel like a situation were my neighbor comes to me, telling me he’s making money and wants me to join the joy. No questions asked. It’s weird.
    I hate people with easy answers, actually, all answers, like Amway recruters. I’m in business myself and a bunch of things they were saying about expenses at home and benefiting from being your own independent distributor is full of erroneous information, misleading you to think paradise is at your hand.

    I hated this speech and the guys was Diamond level. A cocky old guy telling me he was making 500k a year and still making late night presentations because he loves his job…

    You know what, I know few people making that sort of money and they just don’t come back to simple people like us.

    This model must work for a few, but going with my feeling, most people quit because nothing magic happens, ever.

  52. JennyG says:

    First of all if you’re trying to talk up the benefits of Amway please learn how to write in a literate & understandable fashion. Honestly I can’t understand why people think that getting people under them to sell the same products makes sense AT ALL. If you’re trying to sell a product do you really want 10+ people running around in your same social circle/geographic area also trying to peddle the same products?

  53. That Guy says:

    Nice, this whole article might as well be called “The truth about Amway: Inaccurate business rambles from a guy that never became an IBO”

    PS, you should really look up what the word “middleman” actually means in the business world and then check again at how many people you are leaving out of both for walmart and amway

    • CommonSense says:

      Hey guy…Walmart is the middleman between the manufacturer and the customer for an overwhelming majority of the products they sell. Read up on the distribution system and the information systems they use to directly conduct transactions with the manufacturer.

  54. EssEss says:

    Let me clarify few things:

    1. Pyramid and Ponzi scheme structures may look alike, but they are different. Organizational charts look like a pyramid, family trees look like a pyramid. Ponzi is illegal, pyramid structure is not.

    2. Network Marketing or MLM is not for everybody. It requires certain skills. Unless those skills are existed or learnt BEFORE working in the business, it will definitely fail.

    3. MLM must be started part-time initially, along with your present occupation. If you start full-time initially, your chance of failure is a must, unless you’re a housewife or have other stream of earnings running your home. But, when it starts to replace your full-time earning, you should leave your job and invest your full-time in it, not before that. You will need to do that because at that time, you will have an organization with 500-1000 people working in it.

    4. A company cannot fool around the world for 50+ years. There are legal systems and Governments world-wide to take care of any such organizations. Rest of the people are not required to make the other people aware about how bad a company or a marketing system is. If they are so concerned about the people, they should rather take legal actions against the company in their respective courts. If it was illegal, it could not operate or exist – at least in this huge volume.

    5. One cannot suck anyone, unless someone allows him to get sucked. Joining any MLM is a decision one has to take himself. If someone takes a decision to make some other person happy or as he’s approached by someone to whom he cannot say “No”, he did something which cannot be called “a decision”.

    6. Nobody can ‘lose’ money in MLM, not at least in Amway. If someone buys lemon juice because his sponsor forces him, or just to add some PVs, he actually didn’t buy the lemon juice, he bought the PVs. You cannot blame a company for your forced purchase by someone else. Amway never forces anyone to buy products. If your sponsor forces you, you should avoid him. Or, if you buy the lemon juice for your own monetary benefits, just drink it quietly, and don’t spit in public.

    7. Some people join MLM with a hope to buy a soap and get rich. There are many sponsors in all the MLM companies, who just talk about how much money, car, foreign travels, financial freedom one can get, and recruit WITHOUT pre-qualifying the prospects. Not everyone can earn money, not everyone is ready to learn new skills, not everyone is fit for doing business, not everyone can afford to buy the products. The spitters are either paid by a rival MLM company (note: not a non-MLM company) or had been one of these. Just imagine, if you had looked for a Partner for you business, or recruit an employee, would you not judge him/her that whether s/he can be a help or a disaster?

    8. One should not start any MLM business unless one needs or love the products offered by the company, does not research enough research about the company’s background. If you joined a company, which asked you to buy something upfront, asked for a joining fee, asked for a forced monthly autoship of products that you don’t need, it’s your responsibility. You cannot blame an entire industry for that. If you joined an MLM just to earn money minus your required skills, learning abilities and need or affordability of the products, you HAVE TO fail.

    9. If you’re happy with the products of WallMart and not happy with the products and pricing of the MLM company, simply, DON’T JOIN.

    10. Every business works on performance basis. Even jobs are based on performances. If you can perform well, you’re in, if not, you are out. It’s that simple. There is at least one person who failed in any kind of business you can name. Why not s/he blames that entire industry? MLM business also needs you to PERFORM at certain level to reach a certain level. Unfortunately, these things are not explained properly by the sponsors. They are too much in a hurry to make people join without pre-qualifying and filling the industry with stinking garbage.

    11. Google’s turnover in 2012 was about $50,000 million and average earning of employees were $140,000 per year. Can anyone please tell me what is the percentage of average employee earning? [http://www.businessinsider.com/google-really-is-the-best-tech-company-to-work-for-2011-6?IR=T][http://investor.google.com/financial/tables.html]

    12. About meetings and CDS, books etc: I go to the meetings not always to listen what they say, I go there to be in the environment of like minded people. That’s the reason why we go to Chamber of Commerce, Club or any association. It is required to keep up your motivation level. There’re mostly everything available on youtube if someone wants to learn about MLM business or listen to motivational speeches. These things were not there before this millennium, that’s why the systems of “education” started then, and still being followed. Some senior people in the team make money for sure, but, they can’t force you to buy them. It’s again, your choice.

    12. It’s very easy to target Amway, as they’re the giants in the Network Marketing industry and that’s enough reason for heartburn for many MLM companies. It’s okay. Negative publicity works.

    Thank you guys!!!

    • IBO says:

      Well said…Its 100% True

      • El-K says:

        Both the article and what you said are true, just different sides of the same coin. To decide what to do all parts of the story must be told. I was approached many years ago, but then those promoting MLM wouldn’t use the name Amway, instead it was “my business”. I would like to show you “my business” and how you can begin to make money (after being asked how happy I was working at a retail job). After seeing the presentation, I walked, because I knew I would not be a good fit. One has to be out going and have the ability to talk to strangers.
        Move ahead years later, a friend shows me the same thing and this time I decide to join, after all, he wouldn’t steer me wrong.
        Well, still the same problem, but it’s my problem.
        That being said, I did enjoy the meetings and the tapes one can purchase (also earning PV from those) because of the motivation that is instilled. Great speakers like Zig Ziglar, onen of the top motivational speakers. Those were worth it.
        Anyway, before going into any MLM organization, one must understand it still takes hard work, many contacts, and the money won’t come “pouring”in…and if anyone tells you that, they are not being up front.

  55. CommonSense says:

    I love reading the comments from these “successful” IBO’s. How do you sell when you cannot even spell simple words correctly? Have any of you been to business school? It is obvious you know little about product pricing and income elasticity of demand. This is obvious because you feel that Amway products are seen as superior goods. If your product was a superior, or even a normal good, you would not have such a difficult time developing selling these goods. Furthermore, if your good was superior, or normal, you would not even have to waist your time developing a downline. You would just directly sell to customers who demand your product. Legitimate business models do not need such a constant and vigorous defense.

    • EssEss says:

      …some business school goers also spell wrong…like, “waist” time. hehehe. never mind… I have not gone to business school, so do not know, if business schools teach only selling products and not building a business.

    • IBO says:

      I agree with you…These guys are also in the business of negative marketing…just ignore them

    • Jj says:

      Exacly. Why is it more profitable for someone that an IBO has recruited to sell a product, rather than that IBO selling the product themselves? In any business model, you want to sell as much product as you can. Business owners want to sell more, because that is where the profit comes from, not from other people selling the same product. Technically, Amway’s model can work, which is why it hasn’t been made illegal: You are supposed to sell to other people, not just to yourself, but most IBOs see that it is more profitable to recruit 20 people who sell only to themselves and that recruit more people who only sell to themselves, than to sell to 20 people regularly. This is the problem, instead of people selling product to more people and getting higher commission per sale, part of their commissions are taken away by uplines, so you never get a good commission for direct sales.

  56. Kaiser says:

    I think you made a great, great analysis about the whole MLM business model and believe me, I agree with you almost entirely. But while reading your post I couldnt help but noticing that you never gave the chance to compare this MLM life decision with real life, which I think would be the best way to put it.

    What do I mean by this? well, you never take in consideration the day to day opportunities of people NOT involved in this. Lets say any person persuing a normal career, pays 30- 40k a year for an education, to get a normal job ( sometimes you dont even get one) and this person also spends every day out of home, from 8 to 5 every day, also driving to work and spending gas money and not spending any family quality time. This person, if he gets a job, works all this hours to make the CEO a richer man and the chances for this particular person to become the CEO are 1 in a million, just like AMWAY. How many people you know have a degree in something and make a fortune? I assure you its just as improbable as amway.

    I live in a 3rd world country and amway is becoming huge and why is this? Well, upper middle class and rich people here have to pay extremely expensive private schools for their children to have a good education because public school here is really depressing and when I say depressive I mean some schools dont even have chairs or even walls. So, the people coming out from this private schools go to expensive universities, many of them go to the US or Europe for an even better education. I would dare say that maybe 50% of people that finish their university studies apply to post graduate school and many do that as well, in the USA, spain and Argentina.

    What happens then? They come back and they cant find a job that pays better than 40,000 pesos. Which in US dollars is 1000 dollars a month. NOBODY and I mean nobody pays more than that to a new comer ( and remember im talking here about rich and upper middle class young people that many have lived in europe and USA for years). So, the reality here ( dont know how it works in the US) is that you sacrifice your whole life studying and the chances of you actually earning more is only if you are a true genius or if your boss dies.

    I personally dont agree with MLM business model but at least ive seen, with my own eyes, people making much more money with amway than working in a bank HERE IN THIS COUNTRY, can´t talk for other countries. Especially people between the ages of 25- 30 that are the ones getting offered those ridiculous low paying jobs which they are more than qulified to do.

    My reasons for not being in favor are many of the reasons you mentioned. I specially hate the positivism and leadership vibe that is always going on, not because of those themes but because of the scam behind it. But I, above all, despise the fact that nobody really wants these products, amway has kinda like a little monopoly where someone close to you sells you a product you dont want and you buy it just to help. And it becomes a huge chain of favors which the only harmed ones are your friends and family. So, like you say, at the end the ideal business is that you buy those products for you, the 200 points or whatever, just to collect the bonuses, because why would you buy a product you ´´like´´ paying more than the cost of it when you can become an IBO yourself and just buy it with the ´´discount´´. Its only like 150 bucks to get in, so, if you are really going to use this product FOREVER its better to become an IBO and just stop helping your nephew which would be ideal because then the uncle will be on your chain buying products, giving you more percentage for bonuses. AND YOU WILL NEVER EVER AGAIN HAVE THE FREEDOM TO BUY THE PRODUCT YOU WANTED. YOU WILL NEVER TRY THE NEW MOUNTAIN SPLASH SCENT, THE ICY FRESH TOOTH PASTE ETC, ETC, YOU´LL BE ATTACHED FOREVER TO AMWAY PRODUCTS.

    So, what does this all come down to? I think it comes down to having integrity ( if you really know the business) not understanding if it works or not, it does and it doesnt, because you are just squeezing your friends and family and that is a personal analysis and decision, not everyone understands it that way, most people see it as a chain of leaders, helping each other suceed. Me? I alway come to a point where I compare most rich people, most of them are crooked and spoiled and squeeze EVERYONE, including their familes, so its your decision to accept the concept of money, life, wealth and what good and bad is to you.

    I personally think if you analize with depth any business you will find huge inequalitties, lack of oportunity and wrong doing from higher ranks. Its just that we are so accustomed because its the world that was presented to us. But wall street, banks, goverment are the same and all of them have the same DIAMOND RANKINGS, PRESIDENT, CEO. I think its all the same, we dont have a choice but to choose one

  57. Nikobai Berlalgel says:

    If a product is really that good from outside in so they called,it doesn’t necessary have to be overprice.Overprice a good product will just decrease the total amount of loyal consumers keep buying the product,that is something that we really have to think about.Nowadays there are less and less people buying iPhone compare with Google Android powered devices,although at some point those devices are less premium than the iPhone.Android devices are so heavy duty on the go and are lots more powerful,somehow it does lag.From the previous generation to the next generation the iPhone doesn’t really improve on what people want,they just redesign in a way they love.Having being overprice,now their fate is just like an egg wavering on the top of the pinacle,risk to dop anytime any lost forever.Try to be fair there is no any product which is specifically designed just for get gain,each of those different products look very identical but still have its own differences and suits the need of those that really need it.

  58. Taps says:

    Just for let you know.
    I have no sad to spend more than 200$ for Amway Products.
    If they charge even few extra, then it worth for the high quality products they have.
    Dear guys , they give 180 days satisfaction guarantee or money back .
    and 11 billion sales in 2013. What it tells you ?
    Just that the Product are GEMS.
    Let me clear also I joined Amway just to use Products. I believe , After examine their product quality and effect of those its very easy for any one to decide whats good n whats bad.
    I don’t care , yes if some one joined Amway to make money in one night.
    He will fall n compose this kind of article in next day .
    Don’t blaspheme some thing with out having any deep knowledge.
    And Sir
    they have Nutrilite.. Worlds Top organic vitamins
    Artistry , One of Top 5 cosmetics.
    n many more.
    Even you blasphemed a Lot.
    I still suggest , if u take vitamins then take Nutrilite.
    so you will be in safe side and to be in safe side with the Number one Vitamins on earth, feels good.
    or you can by any Vitamin from WALMART n consume it also.
    Thanks.

  59. Matthew says:

    All of you are missing the point… each and everyone of you. No one has yet thought of the CENTRAL issue with Amway. Why do you need a Distrib. to buy Amway Products? YOU can buy them online, yes. But why not in a RETAIL store? Why not next to a H&M in your local Mall? Why not next to Jenny Craig in a strip mall? Why have not they opened retail stores around the country like Wal-Mart or Costco? We have GNC in our malls… Vitamin Shops in our local city and such… Why has not Amway/Quixtar done this? They have been open since 1959 and all there products are Organic right? But hey!! Who wants to BUY A 12 DOLLAR TOOTHBRUSH??!! When I can get one @ Target or Wal-Mart for 3.48 and get 4 toothbrush’s!! Or even spend alittle more @ Costco and 10 Toothbrush’s. Because everyone wants the Commission. They would get along better if they dropped the Pyramid, and just opened stores like GNC..

    • IBOFightback says:

      Matthew, this question of stores vs direct selling was one of those addressed – and answered – in FTC vs Amway more than 35 years ago. The point hasn’t been missed at all. The point was dismissed, most likely before you were even born.

      Direct selling has the advantage of a salesperson (or upline) who can explain a products features and benefits to you. They could for example explain that Amway doesn’t sell toothbrushes for $12, they could tell you they sell a pack of four toothbrushes for $12 (a href=”http://www.amway.com/Shop/Product/Product.aspx/Glister-Advanced-Toothbrush?itemno=100957″>$12.85 actually). They could also explain that they’re made of higher quality materials that last longer and with a better design to do a better job – much like for example this Oral-B toothbrush that Wal-Mart sells for $3.75. Yes, that’s right, Wal-Mart sells a toothbrush that costs 17% more than Amway. They could also tell you that Glister toothbrushes are actually not a product targeted to customers, they’re more just for IBOs, and they get them even cheaper again. But even if you wanted to just be a customer, they could also do something I dare you to try with Wal-Mart. They’ll sell you the toothbrush and let you use it for three months, and if you decide it wasn’t good value, they’ll give you all your money back.

      And don’t even get me started on GNC vs Nutrilite. The fact you don’t know the difference is proof in itself of why Amway uses independent distributors.

      • Matt says:

        How much does it cost to ship that toothbrush? What about the other thousands of products that Amway has? You can only find one that competes with Walmart?

  60. Meester says:

    I’ve got one simple statement to make. I clearly see the pattern in the comment by those of you who are against Amway. The use of crude, uneducated and questionable language tells a whole other story than what you’re saying. You’re undoubtedly unhappy with your life or didn’t really see the potential that is the Amway business opportunity. Now you’re like a child having a tantrum because you’re unhappy. It takes skill, motivation, an IQ and most definitely a vision for what it is you want in life, to be able to understand this business concept. Denounce it all you want it’ll not disappear. Amway has been around for a long time and will be for many years to come. My advice : if it didn’t work for you neither did you work for it ! Accept it, get over it, move on !!!

    • Joecool says:

      LOL, you make assertions about people you don’t even know. That they must be uneducated because they are against Amway? LOL

      Actually, people who avoid Amway are those who can properly evaluate a business opportunity and can see it for what it is.

  61. Ding~Dong says:

    when the IBO sell this s*** products, it seems like those s*** people forces u with a new religion to hold. how f*** off

  62. Head Straight and Level Headed says:

    I appreciate all comments good and bad made on this blog, I am a newly married young man looking at extra income options. I was approached for the first time by an Amway IBO (one of my closest friends growing up and still to this day) a few weeks ago, who had just began her Amway business, she asked me if I’d be interested in making extra money on the side of my full time job, and I said yes, she hadn’t enough experience at the time to feel comfortable explaining the details with me so she invited me to an Info. Session where the opportunities were explained but not entirely clear to me, anyway the point is I believe that I shall give Amway a go and if after 2-3 mo. I cannot turn a profit I will ask for my money back via the 90 day money back guarantee (shout outs: Thanks to Dipanjan Majumdar who seemed to me like a very intelligent person who has their head in the right place. Thanks to Mom of 1, as a fairly new IBO your take on things were very insightful. Thanks to Tex and others for making sure that people are educated on the fact that there are risks with every business endeavor which can lead to failure. However they seemed to forget that risk can also lead to great success.) straight

    God bless you all, God bless America

  63. vick says:

    hello dear

    i use this products until 2007 and i made a lot of economy

    if you have only oppinion and you never used before..please…shout up!!!!!!!

    take information and not opinion

    http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/amway-50-facts/

    p.s. i’m realy seak about people who never try something but they have opinion about everything

  64. Utkarsh says:

    Thanks Mike. That saved me a lot of time and energy. Whatsoever it is, doesn’t looks to be worth the time and effort. There is a huge opportunity cost to pay for this.

  65. wahida says:

    Hi, my family are long time Amway user(about 25 years). We use amway homecare products as well as the vitamins. My parents, my husband and I are all IBO’s.. but we do not sell the products but we joined amway just to buy and use them ourselves. Some people claim that amway’s products are pricey, but let me tell you 1 thing, for example, if I buy 3.5 litres of liquid detergent in a normal store, the price will be RM 28. (Im from Malaysia fyi). It last for about 3 weeks of everyday usage for a family of 5. But if I buy 1 litre of Amway’s SA8 liquid detergent, it will cost me about RM 50, yeah..seems expensive.. but, the nature of Amway home care products are,they are VERY concentrated, with no fillers. If they sell you soap, they sell you soap, not fillers like what you get with supermarket bought products. You have to dilute them before usage. So I diluted my 1l detergent to 3l. Eventhough diluted, it cleans very well. And a diluted 1l last more than a month of daily washings (for a family of 5). So, do the math…

    • Joecool says:

      Your upline speech sunk in well. That response sounded like something you hear on a cd.

    • Superclub(Amway) Blows says:

      And where did that extra 2l come from? Your tap. So you had to pay for an extra 2l on your water bill just so that you can use your detergent.

  66. Freedom says:

    Dear non believers, I started networking with amway when I was 18 years old. I was able to retire 15 months after starting my own business and for the last 5 years have been sharing this opportunity with other people who are sick and tired of being stuck going nowhere in life. I have seen marriages restored and finances bettered through this business and the mentorship that goes along with it. Occasionally you get someone who tries to own a business with an employee mentality and fails then tries to blame others for their own arrogance and laziness. I would encourage any reading this to do your homework on actual sources like the better business bureau or the FTC not someone in their room scribbling negative things on their wall to try and discourage you when they have to go to work tomorrow morning.

    P.S. If it’s a pyramid scheme then what are major corporations like Apple and best buy and under armour and dozens more doing networking with a company like Amway? Do your research properly. Never let someone steal your dreams and make you work for someone else the rest of your life.

    • Joecool says:

      Retired after being in Amway for 15 month? I call BS on that.

      Let’s see, the better business bureau has nothing to say about Amway as a business and the FTC fined Amway for outrageous income claims. Is that what you refer to?

      Major corporations like Apple and Best Buy don’t care as long as Amway IBO’s buy and sell their stuff. Amway is not illegal, it’s just a lousy business opportunity where almost everyone makes nothing or loses money.

  67. giggity says:

    You are a stupid nerdy bitch who didn’t go after his dreams and now he’s stuck with an ugly ass wife…I would make a blog hating on everything also if I was married to that ugly bitch.

    • Michael Wong says:

      If only you had an education, you would be able to come up with a better rebuttal than that. But instead, you have to resort to the kind of mindless insults typically employed by illiterate street thugs.

    • Joecool says:

      Funny how these alleged IBO’s who are losing money are the ones defending Amway the hardest. Not to mention it appears that the grammar of these said IBO’s appears to be less than stellar. Interesting to note.

  68. IBOFightback says:

    Mike,

    I was wondering if you could do a further explanation on this, and in particular address the findings of FTC vs Amway from 35 years ago. They spent several years talking to hundreds of witnesses and experts and studying thousands of documents and came up with conclusions contrary to your findings.

    Obviously these experts must have got something wrong, and you with your afternoon of web research and thought exercises must have discovered this significant oversight.

    Can you elaborate?

    • Joecool says:

      35 years ago, the FTC found Amway legal, but guilty of price fixing and exaggerated income claims which they were fined for. Is that what you wanted Mike to elaborate on?

  69. sceptic_I says:

    All I’m going to say is Amway products ingredients are misleading. In Mexico, they never ever publish the whole array of chemicals they use to make them, you’ll noticed until you buy them, yet they stand for a very healthy option on the market, I mean, acesulfame K, sucralose on their XS™ Power Drink? Why not promoting as what they truly are: Brain Dummers, for **** sake!
    Only a very brief of the ‘star’ ingredients is what you are going to see on their catalogue/website at least in Mexico. I call this unethical, where is the transparency on this? People deserves to know exactly what they are buying. Don’t trust them!

  70. Areina says:

    I got sucked into this program only to find out to get started you have to spend $300 in your store each month. This wouldn’t be so bad if I wasn’t stuck part-time at Wal-Mart. Let’s calculate this shall we? I make 10.10/hour, 5 hours/day, 5 days/week. That’s roughly $50/day, $500 a pay before taxes so my take home is $470ish assuming I didn’t stay a bit later to finish some stocking. I pay $500 in rent so if I split the costs evenly between pays I am left with $140 to survive on a month. This has to cover groceries that I can’t get through Amway, my phone bill, and any other expenses I have to deal with that month. I could flex my schedule to fit my mentor’s just fine, I already thought the way they want you to in the first place, and I welcomed learning new things but I just couldn’t afford it and no one is going to help you because they’re all trying to make their own business succeed. Then I tried talking to my mentor and he seemed more selfish than anything. I would have to starve myself on perfect water and protein bars and he only thought about how me leaving would affect HIM. I hate people, always will and this just made my social seclusion worse. If you are reading this to because you just got dragged into too, don’t follow through with it unless you have extra money to throw around. I was also learning nothing I didn’t already know. And you’ll always hear people saying “Well if you knew how, why aren’t you successful like us?” Well my answer is because I haven’t tried yet. Every meeting you hear the exact same things. I even had the infortunity to go to this year’s Spring Leadership. The most interesting part of it was the band at the very beginning. Every person had the same thing to say, the only diversity is how they got to where they are now. My mentor is extremely unequipped to teach anyone. He may have been mentored by the most famous Diamonds in Edmonton but in two years he’s not even Eagle.

  71. SuperclubAmway Blows says:

    I love how he compared it to Wal-Mart. As a test, I compared Amway’s XS Energy Drinks to 5 Hour Energy from Wal-Mart. I became more alert on XS Energy but I when I tried working out it took the same amount of effort to do my routine. On 5 Hour Energy however I surpassed my routine and did 20 more sit-ups and 30 more reps than usual before fatigue began to creep on me. No let’s compare price. A pack of 12 XS cost me $43.20 before shipping but you can buy cheaper ones for $32.04. 5 Hour Energy costs 25.99 for the same amount of bottle. Now don’t go and bitch at me because XS is $0.01/ml and 5 Hour is $0.03/ml. It only takes that 57ml to get that amount of energy. Compare it this way, if you take the maximum dose a day, XS costs $7.20/day and 5 Hour is only $4.33/day. Now please tell me, who exactly is losing money now? ((Note: They both tasted awesome though))

  72. JV says:

    right do u all know who donald trump is…. do u know how he made his money… through multi level marketing. but just to tell you i am an amway kid my parents are in the buisness i seen it work ive been to amways stores and yea its not cheap but the cost of finacial freedom never is spend $200 a month get more money what doesnt make sense
    in the end though this amway buisness is great and if it doesnt work for u u should get a job at maccas cause obviously you dont know what real work is

    • Joecool says:

      JV, Trump did not make his money from MLM. He may have made some money as the owner of an MLM but he was never an IBO.

  73. matt says:

    My name is Matt and I am with the World Wide Group. We have Amway as one of our main distributors. Many people think bad things on Amway because of how Amway reps handled business in the past. Like many other companies however, they’ve transformed the ways of doing business to better suit the entrepreneurs out there. Most people, when trying to start a business pay tens of thousands of dollars trying to get set up just to open shop. This company allows you the opportunity to start your business for very little. Amway has a bad history (I’ll give ya that), but now days they do all the hard work for us. They take care of all the contracts with other companies as well as maintain the cost of organizations for the consumers. If Amway was a sketchy company, do you really think that all these hundreds of fortune 500 companies would be lined up for partner with Amway? Just something to think about. This isn’t a door to door salesman thing, nor is it a sell out of your garage kind of business, unless for whatever reason you want it to be. Starting up with this company allows you to do all the shopping you do anyway at your own store rather than going and giving someone else your money. Everyone that’s looking at this right now already does what I do….only I get paid for it. It’s that simple and true, whether you want to hold onto your opinions or not. When you teach other people how to shop off their own site, that’s when bonus checks start building. You can easily make more money than anyone that signs you up by simple working your business better. It’s not a get rich quick and it can be hard if you’re not a people person, but it’s a solid business if you’re wanting something real, but like any business it takes your efforts to build your dreams. If you’re wanting to build your dreams and are looking at these types of posts, then it’s obvious that you need to change something in your life. Whether your change involves this business or another, I hope you take actions towards building those dreams sooner than later. If you’re interested in taking the next step in you life and want to take a better look at this, then you can email me at s.generator@hotmail.com…. I’m simply here to help. You can visit my website to see what the business looks like. Find the link to partner stores on my site to see what stores partner up with us. http://www.ampenterprises.mychoices.biz.

    • Joecool says:

      Matt, have you made any net profit from Amway yet? What s your monthly expenses for WWDB training materials?

  74. Robert says:

    http://digestivepyrotechnics.blogspot.com/2013/12/my-way-or-way.html

    This is a funny I happened to stumble upon about Amway.
    No offence to the Amway folk.. but they are a little annoying sometimes.

  75. angel bustamante says:

    wow guys

    this world has negative and postive feedback just like this buisness im in

    u will always have people saying something that will put u down

    here i am reading every single postu guys put

    this world isnt positive

    amway has its ups and down
    just like u , u say negative things just because u been told negative things .things dont go 100% your way, some times sacrifices have to be made . i joined amway 6 years ago . i am now one the happyiest man alive i dealed with people that dont give a crap . those people will work the rest of there lives thinkin they make good money but they workin there buttt offf, you negative people keep doin your job , it makes us IBO’s stronger to look for people who not like you guys and if u wanna contact me im glad to have a converasation because most of u negative people only talk smack in front of your screens not in real life successfull people communicate in person :)

  76. Rick Owen says:

    Amway is an $11 billion+/year company that has paid out $40 billion in bonuses to its distributors, more than any other direct-sales company in history (based on 2013 figures). Amway was ranked as the 28th largest privately-owned company last year among Forbes 400. Amway is a highly-respected corporate citizen around the world. (Here’s their Corporate Citizen Report for 2012: http://www.amway.com/lcl/en/ResourceCenterDocuments/Visitor/cred-amw-fact-v-en–CorporateCitizenshipReport.pdf

    Anywhere you find people — whether it’s in a small-time or Wall Street-level corporation, a professional occupation (such as bankers, lawyers or doctors), service industries (like pest control, lawn care, hair salons, restaurants and hotels), the retail or direct-sales industry (cars, real estate, computers, furniture, clothing, roofing repair, greeting cards and more), non-profit groups, schools, churches or government at any level — people will vary in competency, professionalism, integrity and trustworthiness. Amway is not unique in this regard. Like any other company or industry, Amway has had its share of ‘kooks and crooks’ (since anyone can join), but it has also had some very honorable, respectable, high-calibre people involved. The latter are the ones who gain the admiration of others and enjoy long-term success (be it a little or a lot — whatever they choose to develop).

    Amway’s Code of Ethics and Rules of Conduct address and discipline people who break the rules — not in a hasty or heavy-handed way, but ‘eventually’ after many warnings. They try to give people as much freedom as they can to run their own business and correct any poor practices when they occur, but they will revoke (and have revoked) a person’s business registration, even for large business owners. A number of millionaires have been disciplined and/or kicked out of Amway for their questionable methods and practices.

    Anyone can view the Amway Corporate website and publications to see how things are supposed to work. They require a balance of retail sales to customers and sponsorship (i.e., training and support of others who do the same) BEFORE any bonus can be earned or is paid. This is how things generally work in other direct-sales organizations too.

    I recently registered again with Amway primarily because I like many of their products. They are high-quality, innovative and reasonably priced when compared to equivalent high-quality products.

    I’m very upfront about my involvement with Amway. In fact, my personal website is http://www.amwayguy.com. That’s meant to be a little bit of humor based on the stereotype (“Oh no! Here comes ‘the Amway guy!'”). But it’s also meant to swim upstream against the conventional wisdom about how to be successful in Amway. Instead of using some kind of indirect, stealthy ‘curiosity approach,’ I do the opposite. If the products are good and the business opportunity is good, then (in my opinion) the name should be good enough too. Businesses and organizations succeed by building up their name (backed up by good products and service), not by disguising it.

  77. Brandon courtney says:

    You just don’t get it. It’s not all about the money it’s about changing lives and building friend ships along the way. You just never been to a conference to understand. You also never qualified for anything so anything you have heard is stage talk. The plane and simple fact is that Amway will always be around no matter what and it will continue to build young successful people no matter what. So go ahead a say your opinion which that all it is. Have fun working 9-5 the rest of your life.

  78. goodchurchdrones says:

    Scamway!

  79. Rocky says:

    Very well written article. I believe N21 do good job in developing positive mindset and business skills in ABO’s. My recommendation to all struggling ABO’s, learn business skills from N21 and apply them elsewhere to make money.

  80. OJAS Gujarat says:

    Hello, You are Right bro..I Read Your Post carefully and as per muy knowledge You are 110% right.

  81. Ace says:

    Mike…. u are not a really clever person ,u say Amway is a wrong way its because of u are not understand Amway

  82. marx hu says:

    I was anti amway, but my wife joined amway member from last year august 2014. she started to buy amway products which i hated the most, but after i tried, I’m happy with the quality products that i can’t get the quality from outside, then only i want to know more about their marketing plan and started to run the business on september 2014, on the 4th month, i get my 1st 21% which is around 8k, and get around 6k ~ 8k continuously. until may 2015, i get my platinum, which i can get around 14k on september 2015. for me, this is a great opportunity and a good passive income. so what’s wrong with amway? only for those who got a lot of money then invested in franchise like mcdonalds then earn a huge amount only qualify to call them self a successful businessman?
    i used to think like u do. but i’ve quite good in this business since my lovely wife has joined. for those who hate amway, got 2 reason, either they don’t understand amway products and marketing plan or they are just an ordinary man who can’t think like a businessman & investor.

  83. A tale of 3 network marketing companies …

    That’s quite a rant, Mike! I’m not here to agree or disagree with you, but I would like to share my experience with MLM. I’ve been in or around MLM since 1981. I tried Amway, twice. I tried 4 or 5 more along the way.

    The first company I’d like to tell you about was called FX Trainer. They were a Forex education company. They buy in was $1,000. They were supposed to teach people how to trade, profitably, in the Forex market. I was able to reach the top level of that company, in less than a year. The bad news is that two months later, they dissolved the business.

    Then, 4 years later I heard about an energy company called Ignite Energy. I had lower my electric bill through deregulation and I was all over that company. I knew that it would be a no brainer to get people to switch electricity companies once they saw how much money they could save. Well, Ignite’s electricity was cheaper, for a while. Then it was about 4-6 months out of the year that they were cheaper. I wasn’t able to do much with that business.

    Now, in the meantime, my wife was cornered in the local WalMart by an enthusiastic MLMer. Two months later my wife signed up with Juice Plus. She’s been in the business for about 60 days and she has generated an ongoing income of $100.00.

    I realize that it’s not a lot of money, but it is ongoing, residual income.

    Any kind of business is difficult. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. It takes a new set of skills that most people are unwilling to learn.

    The unfortunate thing is that most sponsors tell their new recruits that they will be there to help them build a business and that sponsor has no idea what to do, either.

    I call this … the blind leading the blind. That’s not much of a business model is it?

  84. If anyone would like to talk to my wife about her business you can find her at:

    http://www.suzybee.juiceplus.com

    or email at:

    juiceplussuzy@gmail.com

    It can be done!

  85. Andres says:

    Lmao… amway is a boring and slow way to make money… maing money can be way easier

  86. well says:

    Well, seems to me this blog is just some hater talking crap, there is so many things wrong that I have no idea on how to start with yet I am only going to say 2 things:

    1- How do you know the amway guy, who made 120 million dolars in sales, income? Do you have access to his bank account? Do you work for the US government?

    An amway diamond in my country has to sell in his organization around 1.2 million dollars for the diamond level, it is known that the average inconme of a diamond in here is around 150k dollars a year, so I wonder how you got that with an organization of 120 million dollars in sales, the top guy only makes 200k when a 1.2 million dollars one does around 150k… get your facts right, you are just writing shit in here without that.

    2- Let me ask you something? Dont you work for a pyramid scheme?

    Lets say you work for walmart as a cashier, then you have your supervisor, the head of the departmant, the head of the supermarket. Now group them for each walmart out there then add the regional boss, ceo, president… you will always be a level down as you will never be the owner so yeah you work for a pyramid scheme, it doesn’t matter where, just look at you organization chart and look what the structure looks like, look where you are as well… it is not a matter of wether or not it is a pyramid because every single company in the world is a pyramid.

    Anyway good luck with your thinking. On thing is for sure, people like Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki, who are not amway distributor but are millioners themselves, whom say that this kind of business is good cannot be wrong in saying so, after all, they are already millioners, you on the other hand are a no one so… you get the idea.

  87. AMWAY MAN says:

    I am an active IBO for Amway. I don’t buy all the products for myself as they are much higher then your normal retail stores. However, you have to look at todays society and target what people are most likely to buy in todays economy. Go to GNC and tell me that Amways supplements are not inline with their prices. I target weight loss, energy drinks, and pretty much all supplements Amway offers, and i actually do make some extra money without spending my own money. People love these products and are very easy to sell. Also if your up line is active then you can save on your shipping cost. I have not paid for shipping since i joined. Bulk orders are the key. I never push Amway on anyone, I simply will drink an energy drink and most people will ask me where can i buy them. This business isn’t for everyone. Just the ones who want to make some extra money. I have not quit my job, nor will i ever. I make around 98k a year working for a major utility here in the city, and i still sell Amway products.

  88. Fraian says:

    Hey! I missed you guys! So this blog just kept on going huh? Been almost a few months now..

    Well. I’m still not a millionaire.. Yet. Haha. And I’m still an Amway IBO + BWW.
    There’s one thing I’d like to share guys. I guess actually two things that I learned from the business, being in here for almost a year now;

    How do you learn?
    1) You learn by your own mistakes thru trial and error
    2) You learn by mistakes of other people
    3) You learn by the mistakes of successful people
    (This is life in general, not only in Amway. But work, school, etc.)

    Time and Money
    Two most important commodities we have in life is the irreplaceable time and the replaceable money. Most of us were programmed to actually spend our time to make money. While it should have been spending money to make time! And thus, find something that can give you that. There are a lot of things, not only Amway, not only MLMs, but a lot of other opportunities that could give that to you. Try it out and give it a chance. You definitely will not find that on a job!

    Finally. If I may Mike. I would agree with you with one thing. Amway, MLMs, or anything for that matter (like basketball or soccer, haha), is not for everyone. Do not join Amway if it’s not your personal decision, if you are feel forced or pressured to do it. You will spend money here. More than that, you will spend a lot of time, and sweat and energy. Do not join Amway if you’re not willing to work, willing to change, willing to associate with the right people. You’ll waste your time and their time they invest on you.

    They were right when they said, they don’t tell you straightforward the struggles, the problems, and the negatives that you will have to go thru to build this business. You can say, yeah, they are lying. Is it for good? Like are they protecting you. Is it with bad intention so you join and don’t quit? I don’t know. But here’s the thing. It’s not a question of “Is it difficult or is it easy?”, it’s more of “Is it possible, or impossible”.

    And thus. “Is it really possible for me to be successful? To be a better person than I was yesterday? To be a better impact to other people, to my friends, families, and strangers?” Ask yourself the right questions. With God, nothing is.

  89. Fraian says:

    I’m sorry but. Michael Wong is smart, really smart. But Joecool. I mean come on man, stop bullying. What makes you so much better than all the people here? I mean, good English? What’s good english or grammar when you’re not making any money or better yet when you’re not as moral of a person that you should be? Try to humble yourself man.

  90. Edwing Ortiz says:

    no one cares mike, join the business and try it before you make opinions.

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